New builds - how many will ever really work?

Can't wait to see his Christmas list.

Dear Dad (err I mean Santa) can I have a CE marked boiler, steel firebox and a cylinder block please??

 

That's it lads, have a laugh at someone's expense. I'm sure there were similar guffaws when some schoolboys founded the GWS back in 1961. I wonder how that idea fared. Must have failed as they were only teenagers.

 

Oh dear sense of humour failure. Put your money where your mouth is and give them a couple of grand out of your bank account then. Thats what you are asking others to do

This thread isn't about Kindergarden rebuilds but the crazy amount of schemes begging for money. Please explain to me how a 14 year old can function as an Engineering Director??????

 

quote from there website "The Great Western Society, famously started by four schoolboys in 1961, is celebrating its 50th Anniversary."

 

I agree with you Spamcan 81. Also I wonder what the CVs of the critics, who hide behind anonmity, are.

 

Without wishing to sound nasty or anything... the GWS bought an 0-4-2 tank engine, presumably at scrap value. What these kids are planning on doing is creating a multimillion pound locomotive.

I appreciate their enthusiasm but honestly believe that for the process of building a loco, you need a team built around a core of sound financial, advertising/publicity and engineering skills.

As for the original question.. how many will work? As has been pointed out the only ones that will suceed will be those with the backing of a) an established line/site e.g. Bluebell, Didcot, Llagollan or b) a well trained and experienced team. In terms of the big names that come to mind in the ideas scheme of things, the GCR 567, Beachy Head, Saint, Grange, County, Patriot, Bloomer, 82045 and G5 are the ones that look to be making significant and effective progress and likely to suceed.

Whatdoes this mean for the others... some I'm sure have been unfairly missed of my list. However I think the P2's are going to suffer, we do not need two! Hengist needs to get their head down and dig into their project firstly by sorting out the management of the project which appears(!) to have stalled, the B17 project has died a death (making a static loco was always a poor idea) and some of the newer proposals suffer from lack of experience amongst their membership.

New build steam is an excellent idea but we must not become diverted along the paths of wild goose chases that result in thousands being wasted that could have helped restore a barry wreck.

m0rris

 

The title Director implies legal responsibility. As a Director in a PLC you are liable and can be persued by a court of law. So tell me that someone who is not legally accountable due to age can hold such a position. Ah yes it's not a PLC. OK so then I will call myself Director/Brain Surgeon/Airline Captain and offer myself for public consumption. It does not matter that I do not have those skills but I have the title. Now do you see the point?

I don't have a problem with ethusiastic youngsters getting stuck in to a project. The more the merrier. I do have a problem with somebody stating that they are something to promote an image which could mislead people.

Life is not a game.

 

Having helped restore a Barry wreck I am under no illusion as to the enormity of the undertaking involved in these new build projects. Everything starts from a "chat over a pint." Some ideas become fully fledged undertakings and others never get beyond the "what if?" stage but who are we to dismiss these groups as "no hopers?" Time will tell which will succeed and which will flounder.

 

To say "I don't believe you will succeed" is fine.

But for grown men (presumably) to be taunting and making cruel jibes at kids on a public forum, all the time hiding behind anonymous pseudonyms, just shows you to be bullies and cowards. You should stop. Yes Maunsell Man and ilvaporista, I do mean you. Cowards and bullies.

 

And herein lies many of the problems of the 'heritage sector'.

I have no experience of the rail heritge sector, but have worked professionally in the built heritage sector for many years. I have lost count of the times I have met with heritage groups of a certain age who have repeatedly bemoaned the fact that they could not get new/young members and that youngsters have no interest. However I have then attended meetings with the same groups when new and young members have offered themselves to become involved and only to patronised and be told that they don't know what they are doing and essentially as they havent been involved for 40 years there opinions are of no use.

People however young will only be patronised for so long until they decide that there are better ways to spend there time.

So hey - why dont people cut them some slack, I dont think they have asked people for thousands of pounds at the moment - and if they have, well rather than knock them on here, I know just don't get involved in the project.

And as we all should remember the internet is an archive forever, I wonder how many of the 'experts' who discounted the GWS lads 50 years ago are glad that the internet didn't exist then!

 

Errrr..... the G5 doesn't have a railway behind it, although it is intended for one.

Foxy

 

Oh! How true!! I started volunteering on the K&ESR when I was eleven, Colin Edwards stuck me inside a Terrier smokebox with the comment, "If he comes out alive, we'll keep 'im!"..... I am still actively involved (though, alas, not with the K&ESR), would I be if I hadn't been accepted then? I doubt it. No, don't knock the youngsters, they are the future.

Foxy

 

*I should really edit to make it clear that having an attachment to a line doesn't make it likely to work as it needs an effective team as well.

 

Steve from GWR (Is that your real name???)

As you can see from every post I write my name is on the bottom of the page. I stand by what I say 100%. I do not hide behind anonymity. A search of the Institution of Mechanical Engineers web site will show you who I am. The I Mech E is the register of Professional Engineers who's jobs it is to make sure people have a level of product safety and security at least equal to our current knowledge.

What is going on is plain irresponsible. Calling yourself a Doctor and operating on people is against the law and people die. Yes die. Calling yourself Engineering Director and expecting that to make an impact is wrong. Respect has to be earned it does not come through imaginary titles. Are you serioulsy content to allow a 14 year old to sign off a pressure vessel in a public open space? Because the legal world is not. Will you personally fund any compensation which arises as a result of inadequate preparation or negligence? So what will you say if this 'Engineering Director's' boiler blows up and kills someone? They are only kids? Not much of a defence in a court of law is it? Life is hard, tough and unsympathetic.

I repeat again I am all for enthusiasm, and much of my work with the I Mech E here in Italy is the promotion of Engineering to young people. Young people are needed in Engineering. But there are no short cuts, it has to be earned.
I am specifically making the point that misrepresentation with intent is a criminal offence. Am I the only one that sees it this way?

 

Fair comment, what I worry about is that these guys are doing this alone because no-one is mentoring them or helping them which cannot be right. Maybe they'd like to post on this thread and elaborate a little?

Oh! And as for posting anonymously, some of us have good reasons to do so, mainly because we are involved in the industry and prefer to feel free to comment without being pigeon-holed by other members of this forum or leant on by our masters! hwell:

Foxy

 

My point would be that they haven't misrepresented anything. It's all in the open who they are and what they're trying to do.

And as to your daft flights of fantasy in that last post, you will realise as well as I do that if this comes off, it's likely to be a 20-30 year project. The 14 year old now will be 40-ish. Plus, a job title of director is nothing but that, a job title. Nothing illegal in that. My company's got several who aren't anything but employees. No-one's pretending any professional qualifications here that they haven't got.

You're no different to those blokes at open days and galas who's always yelling at the kids near the engines to get out of the way cos you want your photo now. Bullying kids is easy. Have you considered you may be misplaced in your role of encouraging young people, if it's your true colours shwing here?

 

It must be the hot weather if it come across as bullying, in my book I call it realism with a dash of humour. It touches a raw nerve that anyone calls themselves an Engineer but has no idea what is involved. People die all over the world every day because "they knew better", is it wrong to be realistic?

I think that we can let the future decide on this scheme and we will see if it flies. I know where I would put my money...

By the way, daft flights of fantasy have a habit of coming true. History teaches us that as we go forward we are less sure about the things we were certain of only a short time ago.

I am glad you know so much about me, because I am still learning every day and have a long way yet to go!

 

If I won the lottery I'd build a replica ..... locomotive depot, and carriage shed, and a goods depot to keep all the stuff that so many people put so much into restoring, but now sits outside mouldering. No other branch of heritage that I can think of, pays so little regard to the up keep and well being of stuff that has been expensively restored. How many spitfires do you see sitting in an open field? Or for that matter vintage and classic cars that don't even have a cover over them during the winter? We can't keep up with the rate of delapidations in the heritage railway sector, and we won't until we get more of our valuable equipment under cover.

 

VERY well said. As soon as we build the Patriot im putting it to the board we fund for a shed (where will depend on things in the future and how well the CVR/MCR expands). there is no way need enough undercover locations. I would say the SVR is the best in that tho.

 

This is gone very off topic...

Why not helping the youngsters and teaching them what to do in a new build or any work. I see one of you works in that sector. Surely you need to teach them WELL, as they are going to take over from you. You don't want heritage railways going belly up. Thats the whole point of the heritage railway. keeping it a live.

Think about it, when my mum went to work she was 15. I know its different but they are learning and starting out at a younger age.