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New built replicas.

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 50044 Exeter, Jan 12, 2010.

  1. 46118

    46118 New Member

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    Depends on firstly the quality of the original build, and secondly how it has been looked after in service. Welded boiler construction is actually proven technology around the world.
    I suspect the A1 people will have negotiated a fairly specific "warranty" with the manufacturers.
     
  2. Autocar

    Autocar New Member

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    :pray:

    On this topic, does anyone know what is happening with the Great Northern Steam proposal to build an NE Atlantic for 2012. I assume this has died a death (sadly) but it is still advertised on their website:
    http://www.greatnorthernsteam.co.uk/category/press-release
     
  3. TonyMay

    TonyMay New Member

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    How about a Thompson L1 then? Class 4MT, the parallel boiler is going to be simpler to construct than a tapered boiler. In service with BR the 5'3" wheels were too small for communter trains that they were used on but they would be suited to 25mph max running on a preserved line. I'd suggest a V3, as they're better looking but as V3s have three cylinders L1 would be easier to maintain.

    Maybe if I win the lottery...
     
  4. Steve

    Steve Part of the furniture Friend

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    And with over 32000 lbf tractive effort, ideally suited for the NYMR.
     
  5. Sheff

    Sheff Well-Known Member

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  6. paullad1984

    paullad1984 Member

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    Id rather build a D23 :-D
     
  7. Matt35027

    Matt35027 New Member

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    I would like a C2X for preserved lines in the South East
     
  8. southdowner

    southdowner New Member

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    Adams 4-4-0 tank, North London Railway 1870's, preserved lines.
     
  9. Broomhalla

    Broomhalla New Member

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  10. williamfj2

    williamfj2 New Member

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    B16/3 Thompson rebuild of the NER B16s (three sets of Walschaerts valve gear instead of three sets of Stephensons' on the B16/1 or the conjugated valve gear of the B16/2) for use on the NYMR and mainline use.
     
  11. 61624

    61624 Well-Known Member

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    ..... and I believe that one was a near miss of the preservation era - kept in Draper's yard for a failed preservation attempt, then cut up before he saw the light! If only he'd hung on to that instead of yet another Black 5.....
     
  12. pete2hogs

    pete2hogs Member

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    I think the V4 deserves a closer look, if a class 5 is considered suitable for mainline work then what would be wrong with the V4?

    Before Thompson exiled them from his sight one was used successfully on GE expresses, the same jobs done before by B17's and after by B1's. They are also a modern design , with thermic syphons etc. I'd certainly include other modern items where they didn't show, such as roller bearings and kylpor exhaust.
     
  13. b.oldford

    b.oldford New Member

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    A more important factor affecting its longivity will be the quality and care applied to the water treatment. It wouldn't be that difficult for a shewd manufacturer to include Ts & Cs to nullify any warranty unless the water treatment is proven to be continually spot-on. Only time will tell if they made a good choice in departing from a traditional boiler.
     
  14. class8mikado

    class8mikado Member

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    A 2-8-2 But which
    DING DING
    P2 vS. Class 8 - Harmless Newbuild Speculative Tittle- tattle MATCH SPECTACULAR

    In the Apple Green Corner - Its no secret that ‘Post Tornado’ various members of the A1SLT have their hearts set on Cock of the North (II)
    With its striking appearance, power and adhesion the P2 is a superlative locomotive in many senses.

    Pros: Appearance -in its original form nothing short of Iconic
    Performance - With power to spare and adhesion to get it on the rail it will fit the Paths other locos cannot
    Unique - the only 2-8-2
    Heritage, - Made it off the drawing board and was the proving ground for many of the A4’and V2’S Features
    Superlatives - It will be the most powerful steam locomotive in the UK (Just)

    Cons Design - The original locomotive was not without its problems as it was a guinea pig for Gresley/Bulleid
    whilst retaining a 1934 appearance the mechanics and draughting will need to be rethought
    to ‘1950’s’ standards to be anywhere as reliable and available as Tornado
    Loading Gauge – The sheer size and weight of the thing will limit its route availability both mainline and heritage
    Expense – Many unique components to tool and a complex engineering challenge to iron out the foibles
    Maintenance - The originals needed lots of TLC to keep them on the rails –can this be designed out ?.

    In the Black/Brunswick Corner the Riddles/Cox 2-8-2 8MT
    British standards have proven themselves to be very steady workmanlike kit on Heritage railways and the mainline,
    The 9f - absent from the mainline due to its outlawed flangeless drivers - is missed by many
    At inception the 2-10-0 was preferred to a proposed 2-8-2 as it was a better out and out Heavy freight engine.
    The 2-8-2 as a mixed traffic loco was still on the drawing board as late as 1954 and is essentially a development of that
    other successful Standard the Class 7 Brittania :

    Pros A First -‘New design’ Mainline Steam loco since Duke of Gloucester
    Performance - should be capable of accelerating all but the heaviest trains and be more surefooted than a pacific
    yet still be available to most routes. Ideally will combine the benefits of the 7MT/9F
    Service - Easier to service and maintain, a popular feature of British standards
    Unique - only 2-8-2 in UK (unless the above gets built as well)
    Cheaper Build - Using mostly new components, but many parts ‘standard’ and are already tooled up by other groups
    operating/building BR Standards

    Cons A First - No ‘Grandfather rights’ convincing the derogation authorities that its essentially a modified Brit and not
    a totally new design
    Appearance - its essentially a Brittania with smaller wheels - not overly exciting

    Well the Pros aren’t as exciting as for the P2 but frankly I don’t see many Cons
     
  15. Consolidation Mike

    Consolidation Mike New Member

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    V4

    There is in existance a formative project to build a V4, though it has been dormant for a number of years. Some key componets were gathered, I understand, including a full set of tyres, various fittings, brake equipment and a tender. I believe that the project stalled in the face of the costs of main line operation compliance requirements.
     
  16. class8mikado

    class8mikado Member

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    Mine would be too if i had one, and had loadsamoney.

    a Second boiler would be a good step, which would minimise the break in service, the other one could be serviced and 'leased' to Blue Peter or form the basis of the P2 Boiler apparently they are all three very similar, and a P2 with D'o'G spec gear and cylinders... i think ive just wet myself ...applegreen of course...

    But thinking on, with enough financials t bring it together A1, A2, P2 and potentially a V1, all working out of the same Shed - what a stable. and lot of common knowhow, patterns and Parts. Reckon you could bid for a scheduled slot on the ECML Every weekend with that MPD.
     
  17. tfftfftff86

    tfftfftff86 New Member

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    The original boiler for 60163 apparently cost £800k. Now I don't know when A1SLT actually paid for it, but the invoice from Meiningen at 2005-2008 exchange rates would have said between 1 and 1.2 million euros, probably closer to the latter.
    So given the slide in sterling, you'll be looking at £1m+ for a new one. More if you built it in Britain, because several wheels would have to be reinvented and a company would have to tool up especially to do it.

    I think that the people at A1SLT who are pushing for a P2 probably don't include the trust's treasurer.
     
  18. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    A couple of mates of mine fired L1s and hated the them but I suspect their shortcomings would be less noticeable on a heritage line. I'd sooner have a V3 though.
     
  19. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    A mouth watering prospect. The P2 would have to be akin to 2001 as built as I never did go much on the wedge nose appearance but think that the original look was absolutely stunning. My money is waiting for the announcement that they'll build it.
     
  20. toplight

    toplight Member

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    I wonder whether the A1 trust might consider "batch building" smaller designs, ideally an Eastern Region or Scottish design as there are fewer of these types than say GWR.
    My own "pipe dream" would be one or even two Claud Hamiltons the (D16/3 type) see:-

    http://www.lner.info/locos/D/d14d15d16.shtml

    At the moment most main line steam trips seemed to be aimed at the "hard core" enthusiast market, expensive, long, all day trips, long distances etc.

    I wonder whether shorter trips, say Sheringham to Norwich (or equivalent) might be more appealing for families etc, providing something similar to a heritage railway but on the main line, i.e. a short trip. The loco could repeat the journey many times a day.

    Perhaps one based on the Mid Norfolk and other on the North Norfolk and running trips say East Dereham=> Wymondham=> Norwich. Holt/Sheringham to Norwich.
    Norwich to Lowestoft, Yarmouth etc but would also be ideally suited to say running on the North Norfolk itself.

    I am sure that this type would appeal to enthusiasts, non of the original ones survive and it would be cheaper and easier to build than either a P2 or A1. The lower cost would probably mean that it could be achieved in a shorter time scale and the smaller boilers could be build in the UK.

    It would be still be great to see an LNER P2 though !
     

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