Next New Build to be completed

I was going to say the Darlington one. They had chassis pics and wheels. Not sure on the streamlined version in terms of progress

 

That's the P1, not the infamous L1....

 

No P2 Prince of Wales

 

indeed

 

*grins*

 

The only problem with that argument Paul is that significant repairs to much larger boilers have been done, meaning they clear can be "handled". My understanding is that we may well have seen more and larger "brand new" boilers if the documentation advantages of repairing existing were not is great - Steve is better placed than me to comment on what would be involved, and clearly is has/is being done and isn't insurmountable. However, it is another potential source of delay and that probably matters more when overhauling an existing loco than building a new one (having money sat "doing nothing" - I am sure you understand!) Indeed, in a number of cases, full renewal would probably have been more straight forward than extensive repairs and the physical work could have been quicker once the paperwork was agreed. Heavy engineering does still exist in this country (outside the heritage sector) and obtaining raw parts, rolled or pressed, is not insurmountable by any means (nor especially expensive).

Effectively, brand new boilers, including fireboxes, have been manufactured up to the very largest size in the UK, but different brand new parts have been made and fitted to a number of separate, "original" boilers, even though each part will probably have been made new at least once!

Steven

 

"I hear you" as they are supposed to say north of the border. However quite a number of narrow gauge boilers have been built so I don't accept all the reasons given for the paucity of these in the standard gauge world.

PH

 

Well, i did wonder whether the reasons I have been given for using as much as possible of the original boilers for various 20th Century built boilers might look odd alongside the smaller boilers that have had full new boilers built, but I suspect the answer is that they are simpler designs and hence both simpler to produce but crucially perhaps simpler to document the necessary details.

It is a suggestion I put forward; others will know better and have definitive answers.

Steven

 

It's probably a myth that the paperwork hurdle makes it easier to overhaul than build new. The difficulty is what do you base your design on? The only modern UK standard is BS2790, which relates to shell boilers of welded construction and I suspect that it would be difficult to make large locomotive boilers stand up to this and stay relatively close to the prototype. It is much easier with smaller boilers. There is certainly no standard for copper firebox boilers.
Where major work is required, there comes a financial point when it is more cost effective to build new. The costs involved in removing stays are not insignificant and add greatly to overhaul costs. Once you start having to make flanging blocks the balance tips even further in that direction. Backheads are now quite common although I think that complete new throatplates are still fairly rare.

 

It's not going to steam real well without a boiler.

 

Im just looking forward to the 'New build gala' we'll have in about 2019/20ish, fingers crossed as stars of the show we'll have 6880, 45551, 82045, 84030, 2999, Beachy Head and the P2 ( Ajust as nececesary Some may be in light steam or running in!) in a supporting role we'll have the railmotor and 60163. ;-) I know this is all a bit tongue in cheek (not to mention a bit optomistic) but Id like to think it will happen and that date isn't that far away. The next major inquest we need to have is what colour they'll be in...

 

I was obviously suggesting they would catch up and complete the project first! I'm sure it will not be long before the P2 boiler is under construction

 

Sorry to re bring this back up but i just wanted to make a slight point to this comment and one for you to think about. You say that money tied up isnt helping as its not yet in steam. So 45551 trialed using poly patterns for its inside cylinder. Granted the first one went wrong but since then there has been 3 cylinders produced for 45551, 2 for the Grange, 2 for a 5025 (black 5 up north) 2 for the F5 newbuild and a few more in the pipe line that cant be named yet. All of these projects weather new build or restoration have saved £££££ and lots of it and also time with poly patterns being much quicker than traditional patterns. And add to that the finding if Harco engineering who have gone from not doing loco items to having a workshop full of cylinders, motion brackets/girders etc etc. So there is just one situation where a loco being built is helping the movement to save money and get locos back into service. Other projects will also come across ways of saving massive amounts of money to benifit all.

 

And what railway it'll be on. Llangollen would be apt, as the Railmotor, 6880, 5551, 47xx and Sandringham can all call it their birthplace.

 

Just note the quote. The items noted are components and and are examples of things e.g. cylinders which have continued to be produced over the years. The real absentee is a new boiler of substantial size which item has not been produced in the U.K. for decades.

PH

 

Which again i really dont get what your getting at?!? The skills exist to produce every part of a boiler. From spot replacement of individual sections of a boiler to complete replacement of barrels or inner/outer fireboxes, just because a complete new one hasnt yet been done doesnt mean it cant. And why would a group that is trying to keep costs down to a minimum replace parts that are fit for use? It wouldnt therefore that is the ONLY reason we havent to date needed to produce a new one. Yes Tornado went abroad for theirs due to wanting to make design changes that couldnt be signed off in the UK. But if your doing to original designs then the issues no longer present themselves. 45551s boiler IS being build as we speak. The inner box is almost ready to assemble with all copper sheets formed and nearly drilled. The steel Throat and back plate have been ordered from Tyseley and the barrel has also been ordered. Were in discussion about what stay material we will be using also. You make it out that boiler construction is a black art. Yet it really isnt aslong as you have money. Something that most groups in preservation do struggle to get hence the need to spot replace.

 

Paul. You are correct at March 2015. By the middle of this year you can expect to be on the wrong side of the argument !

The 82045 Steam Loco Trust are well on the way to starting construction of a new traditional boiler - I do hope you are not going to argue that its size does not meet your requirements ! Money is being donated, in 12 months over 150,000 pounds, which means there is enough for all construction materials. Quotes for manufacture are being received as I write, and a start is expected this year.

These projects rely on the financial support of enthusiast to progress, the greater the support the faster the finished product. There is a cap on the number of potential supporters for almost anything you care to think of, railway related or not. This cap is the largest inhibitor to rapid progress, not the physical ability to manufacture.

Can I be a little cheeky and suggest you might consider getting on the right side of the argument, and once again prove that in our world the impossible is indeed possible, by considering donating a small sum to the 82045 boiler appeal ?

 

Haven't thought that far ahead! But its a nice problem to have!

 

If you look at the work carried out on the boiler for 4472 it is pretty close to being a new build. Yes, I know that I have posted something along these lines before but what the etc. etc.
Close, but the cigar has not been awarded just yet. It is only a matter of time before a total new build comes into being. And as to how substantial it depends on the first horse past the post since there are a number of contenders. Will it be a boiler to modern standards? Not likely, not just yet. But one fine day the decision will be made to stop throwing money at traditional design and construction.

 

If youre putting 4472 into the potential new build category. 34027 is right up there. The only part of the boiler that has been re used is the outer crown sheet and tube plate ring. Everything else on the boiler is new. Manifold, injectors, copper pipework, tube plates, dragbox, LH cylinder, cab, brake valve, smokebox and steam pipes. The list keeps going. Other than when the Bulleids were rebuilt, this has to be the biggest overhaul of any Bulleid.