North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

This is another answer where you seem to see the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

The trite answer to the fact you members contribute about 1% of turnover is "well, get yourself some more members then". Set yourself the challenge to double your membership, then that 1% becomes 2%. In our case, our society generates, after all costs, about £80k per year. It's not a vast amount, but it is not nothing either.

There's a much deeper issue though in valuing members. In Bluebell terms, I'm one of your group who are contributing more per month to the Trust (our charity) than a member pays per year. But how did I get there? How did I move from a casual visitor to a committed monthly donor? The route went along the line visitor - member - volunteer - donor. There are many things I could spend my money on (some charitable, some hedonistic); the reason I choose to spend some of it as monthly donation is because, in my years as a member, the railway has convinced me it is cause worth supporting. I know I am not alone in that journey. The more you treat your members as a burden rather than an asset, the less likely you will enthuse the next generation of people to become those regular £30 - £40 - £50 per month donors.

The more you write, the less I feel the NYMR is a worthwhile venture that is worth nurturing. To donate to anything, I have to think that what I am contributing to is precious, and that my donations will be wisely spent. There are more calls on my donations than I can give to, so I have to be selective. What is the case for the NYMR when you seem to have so much disdain for what makes it unique?

Tom

 

I thought I'd made clear that members ARE valued but it's incumbent on the organisations they belong to and support to be honest with them. When the NYMR started you had to be a member to travel. In the early days it was financed largely by membership subscriptions. If those members believe, as some appear to do, that those days are still with us then isn't fair to explain the contribition that membership income now generates? It's not a situation that is unique to the NYMR. Of course heritage railway members should ideally be motivated to join organistions like the Foundation and follow your example but that can mean recognising that their basic contribution is not the sustaining financial force that it used to be.

 

Yes, but your tone doesn’t seem calculated to motivate your members to make that step up in contributions. Maybe my soft southern sensibilities aren’t attuned to Yorkshire bluntness!


Tom

 

To pick up on what @Jamessquared has been saying, I recall saying to a board at the start of covid that the reason that other railways had (at that point) received more in donations to their emergency fund was that they were more loved than our line.

What I meant and continue to believe is that there have to multiple value propositions offered. All have to be good value for money, whether premium or not, and all have to somehow “fit” with the essence of the railway as well. We have to create reasons for our members, volunteers and visitors to live what we do and want to tell others.

in addition there has to be a recognition that some ideas are better done at certain places than others. The makeup and motivation of people visiting the NYMR or FR is mostly as part of a break and there are other reasons to be in the area. Not true for the Spa Valley or the MHR for example. Multiple offers at multiple price points consistently delivered over a period of time (and yes regular innovations) create a solid basis for the business.

The problem is that the basic value proposition of a ride on a steam train, that is to say a ride on an ordinary operating day, is not sufficiently strong to be perceived as value for money in many cases. It looks like a lot of money for a limited amount of enjoyment and interest explaining how that isn’t so, and making it not so, is a task largely ignored by most railways. Yet from AV to QR there are many ways to address that without huge cost.

Add to that the fact that a great proportion of the general public don’t have a clue that a ride on a steam railway is even a thing. We assume that everyone knows and understands what they are looking at, but at the MHR a passenger survey some years ago revealed that 75% of visitors were returning. Great customer satisfaction! Yes, but at that rate you’re not growing the base.

I wonder if there is a role for the HRA to publicise all railways in the way in which the Great Little Trains of Wales used to do, but better and national. Raising awareness among the public of the fact that our railways even exist could be a very beneficial thing and might only need £10k per railway (average) to do something really exciting that on their own each railway could not.

 

I suspect we would agree that entry level membership should ideally be the start if a journey. It may sound like Yorkshire bluntness but ideally you want to farm that supporter base giving them good reason to increase their contributions in whatever form. Sending out a message that the basic level is enough risks inducing complacency. I have seen it suggested that membership could be given away free to every purchaser of a full line ticket. After all ,as ticket prices have risen over the years while membership fees have been kept relatively low, the net financial benefit from such a passenger could be at least as great if not more so than from the basic membership fee. In that sense those passengers are “supporters” who have been motivated to travel on the railway and one would hope are sympathetic towards it. If the prize is upselling to encourage further support having that much larger membership base might be beneficial. It’s a version of your “go out and find more members” suggestion but with a view to what they can be encouraged to support in future.

 

I’m

Totally agree! It’s also galling that a sizeable proportion of visitors don’t understand that heritage railways are usually dependent on volunteers. The strong theme at the recent HRA conference was the opportunity to attract new visitors who would never normally consider visiting a heritage railway. In provocative terms entice them to visit for reasons that traditionalists would view with disdain such as “character days”. The aim is that having got them for the “ wrong” reasons their eyes are opened to the real experience the railway can offer and they come back.​

 

I agree with you. Another question I have posed in the past (without getting a very satisfactory answer) was “why do you want members?” And the reason for asking that was pretty much what you’ve been prodding at. If you want to grow members then have a good idea why you want more and how that will benefit the organisation. As @Jamessquared has indicated they should perhaps be seen as the beginning of a funnel that leads to some proportion (as big as possible) becoming donors. I’d equally buy the premise that they are the funnel of future volunteers, or both. But it needs to be a planned journey and it needs to provide reasons to keep moving along.

I do think that many members believe mere membership brings a significant financial benefit to the their railway. (and perhaps it was once true - membership was relatively more expensive once upon a time with maybe 5 round trips needed to “justify the cost” if you only bought membership for the travel benefits, based on my early W and L days in the 80s).

As another observation with footplate days regularly selling out at £500 a pop, what is the value delivered by the railway to the footplate volunteers? I think that you might make a sensible argument that rather than exchange being free labour, the volunteer driver should pay for their turn. I’m not advocating that by the way, because i don’t think we can get from where we are to there, and I wouldn’t want to anyway because it would become yet another thing that prevents people volunteering and hit the poorer in society hardest, but, with golf club memberships and the like we volunteer drivers need to remember that a pretty big part of the hobby we enjoy is paid for by others not all because even costed as a volunteer my time driving is around £250 per day, but if the value of the day sold to a footplate experience participant is £500 per day, well I don’t get a bad deal when all is said and done.

 

I’m

Your unconventional way of looking at things is refreshing! I believe strongly that we all need to be open to new ideas including some that may be unpopular.

 

In all the discussions regarding the Station Hotel has there ever been a suggestion that volunteers could be used to refurbish the place. However, my understanding of the plans for the Station Hotel are somewhat different to your version. I was told that it was to provide better office space, allowing 12Park street to be sold, certainly not for either use as volunteer accommodation or even a pub, although that may not have been the intent of the Benefactor. I wasn’t involved with any discussions so can’t say with any certainty that’s true but the source later moved down south to Head a visitor attraction. IMHO that holds more water than your version.

 

I can only repeat that the current situation is that Trust Board has commissioned an assessment of the property portfolio with no preconditions. I’m confident that it will wish to respect the views and intent of the donor that made purchase of the Station Hotel possible.

 

So you’re not disagreeing with my post regarding the PLC’s plans for the Station Hotel?

 

If you mean that it’s been decided to it for offices or any other purpose , Yes, I most definitely am. Nothing has been decided!

 

No I don’t. I’m saying that, notwithstanding the intent of the benefactor, the PLC’s intent was office accommodation.

 

One option would be use as a replacement for 12 Park Street and Mulberries office accommodation freeing up 12 Park Street for conversion to volunteer accommodation. There’s nothing wrong with the PLC having a view on that, or even a preference, but it’s the Trust Board’s decision.

 

There are several strands to this discussion but the most pertinent one concerns leadership and management competence.

Does the management inspire confidence?
Just a few years ago, there was a clear direction with the Magnificent Journey. Where is the current aspiration for future development?
Meanwhile, mentioned on other forums, there are more TSRs on sections of track, 5 mph speed restrictions on two recently renewed bridges at Goathland (why?) and fewer larger scale events in the style of Sixties weekends or Wartime weekend. There was tremendous goodwill from thousands for the wartime weekend and something similar is surely needed to fill the gap. Goth weekends in Whitby could have an added railway dimension in steam punk style?

I do hope the Gresley visit (will it pull any Gresley carriages?) creates suitable crowds, let's pray for some nice early spring weather.

 

There are currently a lot of strands to this thread c and with our village currently losing all internet and only having a phone, I’m struggling to keep up. Concerning the offering of the NYMR’s station buffets, the offering is pretty dismal. As has been remarked on a Facebook post, the thing that kids (and others) most frequently want is chips. Can you get them on the NYMR? The answer, so far at least, is a resounding no.

 

You can't beat a good chip butty.

 

This is just so typical of the attitude that is so off-putting to so many! We don't need any input from others, be they members, volunteers, donors, prospective donors or just interested parties - "we know best". Consultation or communication even are simply not concepts in the NYMR lexicon and hence they are surprised by all the negativity!