North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

Despite trains running today, website says

Next open: Tuesday 18 February with the February Half-Term Timetable

 

Just had a look. Not very impressed with the mixed messages.

 

It's another example of how I feel that the new CEO doesn't have much of a grasp of reality. Their focus has been very much on cutting back and making savings, with other areas that might help improve the level of custom ignored! Having been the railway's former Marketing Manager, and later Business Development Manager, one might expect her to be acutely aware of the importance of having a good accurate and up to date website, but that's apparently not the case, and I think it might be added that it appears as though the NYMR's present Marketing Manager and IT Services Manager aren't providing the support worthy of their salaries - perhaps more savings should come from there?

 

Putting the cart before the horse again here.
Instead of divvying out thousands of pounds voluntarily, address the core issue. Is the timetable achievable?
Last year,timekeeping was poor at times owing to many,well documented,factors. Sort that and you are halfway there.The mainline tocs are well known for adding a few minutes padding to the timetable before the destination.
In addition,where people are inconvenienced to the extent of needing hotels,taxis etc,by all means compensate them. This will amount to a hell of a lot less than a whole train load of punters.
The vast majority of passengers would just decamp from the train,have a little grumble, and drive home in their personal transport.
Should this barmy scheme be implemented,it could finish the Railway off and leave a large number of supporters,myself included,deeply disappointed.

 

The lunatics are running the asylum! Perhaps a wholesale reset is needed to repopulate the management with people who really understand what the NYMR should be about providing, and what the expectations of the people using it are. In the final analysis, the terms and conditions need to reflect the fact that for the most part the customers are not time sensitive individuals, and compensate only those who have experienced a material form of loss.

 

Apologies for any misunderstanding. The key observation in your post is "when it may not be necessary". As far as I can see no one has been able to refute convincingly that the 2015 Act says it is necessary. It's true that Act does not specify the triggers and levels of any compensation or refund which is where each railway can make its own judgement as to what's appropriate in the hope that will be accepted as compliance given the nature of the service on offer.

 

.....and that's where the NYMR's judgement seems to be (according to most of the comments on here) seriously flawed!

 

Just to clarify the general terms and conditions are not new. They have been published and in operation for quite a few years without the dire consequences you fear.

 

Perhaps you can please point us to which 2015 act and applicable section you feel causes all this, so we can make our on valued judgements.

 

This is a very erudite thread on the whole, but can we keep it civil please?

 

I have tried to keep within the limits of civility! Sometimes, criticising can border on the limits of civility but I haven't outright called anyone incompetent, although I do admit to calling it into question!

 

It depends on what you class as a "leading line", I don't class a line that is hemorrhaging money, in the region of £500,000 every year as leading.

Certainly not setting an example that I would advise others to follow!

 

With numerous TSRs and a proven track record of bad timekeeping, now (or anytime for that matter), is not prudent to be advertising how much money you can claim back from a delayed service, especially on a Sunday, when you will struggle to find a train!

 

It has been discussed before on this thread, but it is the 2015 Consumer Rights Act, and @Lineisclear has specifically mentioned Clause 56; my own reading is that it is also the preceding paragraphs that apply.

The key point is that the legislation does not specify how the remedy is to be applied, or how much - just that there must be a refund. Interpretation is then required as to what is in the contract, what information informs entering into the contract, and how fulfilment (or not) is to be measured.

NYMR have taken quite a rigorous interpretation which diverges from other similar railways, and where it is hard to see which is definitively correct. However, if NYMR's interpretation is correct, the ramifications in the heritage railway sector (including railtours) are potentially very significant.

 

A fair and balanced summary. The relevant section doesn't only refer to refund but to compensation. It envisages circumstances where that could be a full refund.

 

If the law was enacted 10 years ago,2 questions spring to mind.
Why has it taken 10 years to come up with this interpretation and why are no other railways rushing into this course of action?

 

.....and why are there no responses to any of the other concurrent points being made?

 

So does it follow that the Helston Railway, Mid Suffolk, East Somerset and the like will have to offer "delay repay" ?

 

On the whole the timetable is achievable but it is the southern half of the line where it is difficult, in particular the Levisham - Pickering section if speed restrictions are observed. It is nigh on 6 miles in length and the first mile out of Pickering is currently restricted to 10 mph plus 5 mph over the crossings. Ignoring those 5 mph slowings, one mile at 10 mph is 6 minutes followed by 5 miles at 25 mph is 12 minutes, giving a total time of 18 minutes. That ignores acceeleration and decelaration and the 10 mph within station limits at Levisham. A couple of years ago I produced the graph below to work out the theoretical times over the whole of the NYMR and compare them with the section times in the WTT. I allowed for acceleration and deceleration in doing this although I've forgotten what figures I used at that time. you will see that I reckon a Pickering - Levisham time of 20m 10s is the fastest that it can be done in and obey the speed limits. These have not changed for this section since I did the calcs. The WTT for this year hasn't been published but the published public T/T requires a departure to departure time of 20 minutes so it would require some spirited(!) running in the down to achieve that. In the past, the up train invariably arrived at Levisham before the down train. This then required the fireman to walk back to the 'box to pick up the token and then walk back once the down train had arrived and the token is passed through the instrument and issued to him. That's about 450 ft so, at 3mph walking pace it takes about 1m 40s to do which adds to the time and makes arrival at Pickering invariably late. (@Linesiclear can no doubt give you chapter and verse on crossing trains at Levisham and whether my experiences are the norm.) Twenty minutes is generally allowed for running round at Pickering and this is achievable if there is no need to take water but tank locos always need to do so and that's not a five minute job. This then makes the departure from Pickering late and exacerbates the situation at Levisham when trains cross. Things could be improved if the long 10 mph was removed but the building of the carriage shed so close to the running line makes this very unlikely. For 2025 there is a long PWS between Levisham and Goathland so section times have been increased to cater for it but the 09.20 ex Pickering to Whitby is still only allowed 65 minutes between Pickering and Grosmont, as in the last few years. Fortunately, any late running of this is unlikely to have a knock-on effect.
Timekeeping is not helped by the fact that in my experience problems often arise when locos stationed at New Bridge go to shed at Grosmont for exam and coal. It can be like a black hole going into Grosmont tunnel and it can be anybody's guess when a loco will emerge again to take its train.