North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

That is the gist of the problem at the moment, I think, but plans are afoot to submit an application for a derogation to allow them to run to Whitby at no more than 25mph. To go to Battersby or any faster on either Grosmont-Whitby or Grosmont- Battersby would require secondary door locking to be fitted and all coaches stewarded. The LNERCA Vice-chairman has a dream of running our fish van to Whitby and transporting a box of kippers to Pickering in it, but if you have seen the fish van you will appreciate that dream is a long way from fruition.

 

Yes I saw the Fish Van in the long siding near Pickering, looks like it needs more insulation and a bit less air conditioning.....

 

The enhanced Whitby timetable requires 3 out of 4 sets to run to Whitby. The other set doesn't, and the Diner set has not more booked branch work this year. It has imply matched coach availability and seating capacities best at the moment for the 3 Teaks to be the ordinary seating on the back of the Pullmans (The Moorlander rake) and the non-Whitby set to be Blood and Custard Mark 1s. There is currently a Gresley TTO out of service with wheelset problems, but with that returning and 2 newly restored coaches for next year, the Gresley set would have a similar seating capacity to the Mark 1 set to form the non-Whitby set next year.

Steven

 

Ah I see, I thought it was something like that. Even so, I'd still like to see the Teaks run into Whitby, I think riding authentic LNER stock into an iconic LNER location could be positioned as a unique selling point, which might help with grant funding etc.

 

It remains on the "to do" list and my understanding is that it has been indicated to be perfectly feasible given the necessary safeguards etc.

Steven

 

The use of wooden framed and wooden bodied stock by WCR in the Highlands has presumably established a precedent.

 

That doesn't ring a bell, which vehicles are you thinking of?

Chris

 

Are the VSOE Pullmans wooden bodied?

Tom

 

Would the use of the Chesham set on Met Lines be classed as Wooden framed stock?
Were they delivered to the MET by rail?

 

I don't know what the specific ownership of the lines is in which they carried passengers, but they definitely ran on Network Rail lines to get there, including part of the Brighton mainline and right through Claphan Junction! They were allowed to run at up to 40mph, but carrying anyone other than the guard was prohibited while they were in transit.

It does feel a bit like rules are being interpreted a bit more flexibly if the conditions are right. As has been discussed elsewhere, the Mets will be on hire to London Underground for one month per year for the next five years.

Tom

 

I assumed they were. Though having seen "Fingall" stripped down, "wooden frame" is a bit of a misnomer: built like a 19th century battleship would be a closer description! When you remove the outer panels, and ignoring the windows, I'd say there is more frame than gap!

Tom

 

As I understand it, there has been a ban on vehicles with wooden framed bodies on the mainline for some years, indeed I believe from before privatisation. However, "grand-father rights" were allowed for vehicles then already running, which included a number of coaches in the original Royal Scotsman set, which now are part of the Queen of Scots rake.

The 1951 loco-hauled Pullman's, of which VSOE have a number, are timber framed whilst some earlier cars (1928 Queen of Scots - not the same as the one referred to above!) are all steel and even I believe may be considered as having integral body and chassis and hence are not "Mark 1s" for mainline purposes.

More recently, and in line with much in the current approach to rail safety regulation, a risk based approach has been taken and if a suitable case as to what the risks are and how they have been mitigated can be made, then suitable authorisation for use of wooden bodied stock appears to be possible. early days but not a definite "no way", at least in the right circumstances and with suitable safeguards.

Steven

 

This lot:

http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=945

http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=585

http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=857

http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=652

 

That's them - 1st one was royal Scotsman but I understand hasn't been used this year and the other 3 are Queen of Scots.

All have mainline registration dating back many years.

Steven

 

The timber-framed VSOE Pullmans continue to run under "Grandfather rights", as did the "Queen of Scots" GNR saloon (don't know if that is still active) but it was decreed some years ago that no further wooden framed vehicles would be added to the main line register. All this has gone by the board now, it would seem, and subject to meeting certain criteria it is understood that a derogation could be granted in appropriate circumstances. Grosmont-Whitby certainly fits the bill and the application is imminent, the LNERCA were told at a recent meeting with NYMR Management - in fact the target date for submission was by tomorrow, although I don't know if that has been met. A fair bit of groundwork has been carried out on some vehicles already -UATs have been done on some and lower shelf bracket buckeyes fitted - so it may be possible to fulfill the dream at some point next year.

 

Which make the sight of ECJS 189 in platform 2 at Whitby a slight, even if distant, possibility.

 

From my experience with Barbara and Theodora the doors on Pulmans open inwards. They do not have droplights, having a fixed oval window

 

Both the "traditional" Pullmans and the 1960 stock have inward opening doors, with drop lights only on the Guard's door and an internal bolt. They are, of course, usually stewarded by the waiting staff, so comply with the normal scheme for gaining an exemption from Central Door Locking without further work.

Steven