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Northern Belle: 19/9, 3/10 & 17/10/20 + 16 & 17/12/20

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by pjhliners, Jun 11, 2020.

  1. Steamage

    Steamage Member

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    Dates are 10/4, 29/5, 26/6, 11/9 & 15/9.
    Also: Bournemouth Belle 5/7, 3/9 Torbay, 17/12 Christmas Lunch from London Victoria, loco tba in each case, though 17/12 will be a Black 5, apparently.
    Time for a Northern Belle 2021 thread?
     
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  2. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    I see that the banner image for the 17/12 trip shows Clan Line on the Belmond Pullman. Have they got no shame?
     
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  3. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    I think you will find the Bournemouth Trains will be with 35018 but without the Pullmans they ain’t the Bournemouth Belle
     
  4. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Well-Known Member

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    Two Bournemouth Belle's in 2 days, it is like BR Steam Days. Is BIL air braked I cannot remember? 6201 is down for the RTC End of Southern Steam so why not the NB trip?
     
  5. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    No. I think they plan to use their umber and cream 'pullman' stock and will take a leisurely stroll to Bournemouth from Victoria and via Staines. Nothing like 5th July 2017, of course, but a decent enough second best.
     
  6. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Carnforth doesn't understand that this is the 21st Century and so air brake is the future. That's why they are grateful for 6201. So, whilst I think that the RTC Bournemouth trips on 5/7 and 9/7/21 are supposed to be BIL, if the 'Bournemouth Belle' trip is the Northern Belle stock then it can't be BIL.
     
  7. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    My mistake, 35018 is down for the 3rd and 9th of July. Looks as if there’s quite a bit happening on the Bournemouth line in July
     
  8. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Well-Known Member

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    And also mine as I had not noticed the RTC site has updated the July 9 trip to 35018. I did think 6201 was an unusual choice for The end of Southern Steam, although I guess a Black 5 would be appropriate if we look at LMS locos.
     
  9. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    I'm not sure that's right, the only problem with vacuum braked trains is rescue if anything goes wrong with the lack of vac braked diesel locomotives. This maybe why a diesel is often on the back, particularly when the WC engines are working well away for either Carnforth or Southall. Maintaining dual braking has got to be more expensive and even Clan Line has kept vac braking on the tender.
     
  10. Sam 60103

    Sam 60103 New Member

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    As far as I know Flying Scotsman was solely air braked during the early 2000s when it ran on the pullman trains then when the big overhaul occurred the NRM made it dual air and vacuum braked. I might be wrong but thats what I understand to be the case. Also, Flying Scotsman didn't go to many preserved railways between 1999-2005 apart from peak rail if I'm right.
     
  11. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    Totally disagree with you there Al. Part of what we are trying to do is to preserve the past here and it seems to me that Carnforth manage their Vac braked trains with little or no dramas. And I cannot think of any occasion when a diesel is on the back because it is a vac braked train. They are usually there to facilitate reversals or shunting.

    Just a personal opinion

    Peter
     
  12. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    West Coast are not the only ones, I think Bob Meanley has had a few choice words to say about air braking in the past.
     
  13. J Shuttleworth

    J Shuttleworth Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, Alan, you’re way off the mark. We understand perfectly well the requirements and differences of the two types of braking systems - and have done so for the last 22+ years.

    Should we need to call on an air brake steam capability for air-only stock (the latter of which is actually comparatively rare for us - Northern Belle or Lakeland Pullman vehicles are the only ones), we can call on 6233, 60163, 60103, Riley’s 5s, in addition to 6201 and 34067. It requires a little forethought in planning but it’s not difficult.

    If you are worried about Pullmans on the Bournemouth Belle, we do have Met-Camms, which are dual-braked, but, if it’s absolute authenticity you want, 54 years after the last steam-hauled Belle, you pays your money and takes your choice.

    JS
     
  14. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I would just be happy to see 35018 back on home metals , James mensions 34067, is it now being overhauled then, plus Ian Riley is now working on 35009, so hopefully in the future, as Rileys loco's tend to be duel braked, 35009 should also be available if you want total authenticity .
     
  15. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    I didn’t think it was that rare, I thought the afternoon Jacobite set is airbraked or am I wrong?
    I think you may have opened up a whole new heap of speculation by mentioning 34067!
     
  16. RalphW

    RalphW Part of the furniture Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    I may be wrong but I believe this has been mentioned before and is why 62005 never hauls the morning train, not being vacuum braked.
     
  17. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    It's the other way round, 62005 can only haul the morning train because it's vac braked only
     
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  18. 30567

    30567 Well-Known Member Friend

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    Also interesting is the mention of 6233!
     
  19. RalphW

    RalphW Part of the furniture Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Right, I knew there was some reason why 62005 could only use one set.
     
  20. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    I think we are at cross purposes. I don't have a problem with Carnforth operating vacuum brake locos at all and whilst I'm pleased you say that West Coast understands well the requirements of air and vacuum that wasn't my point. In common with other TOCs that operate steam on the main line, if they can do so with vacuum brake locos then that's great and as @torgormaig says if Carnforth is all about preserving the past I have to say that they do a pretty good job of exactly that.

    My observation was that in general Carnforth does not 'do' air brake. On occasions when it could have been possible to install an air brake system on a locomotive - BIL is the obvious recent example - that opportunity wasn't taken. And to be honest, that's fine and none of my business.

    But in the same way that Tornado was built to include air brakes and. unless I am mistaken. all of the LSL fleet operates on air brakes, then it's arguably a 'no brainer' why that is the case. Obviously, preserving the past on a heritage line is just that and vacuum is fine. I was merely saying that if you want to play on the big railway then you cannot be blind to the industry standard braking system that it uses.

    Hence my 'air brake is the future' comment. That said, anything steam on the main line is wonderful and my only hope is that the virtual halt of main line steam in 2020 hasn't generated insurmountable problems for 2021.

    As for Bournemouth in July 2021. Three trips can't be bad. :)
     

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