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NRM's J17

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Hicks19862, Dec 17, 2017.

  1. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Absolutely.
     
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  2. Johann Marsbar

    Johann Marsbar Member

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    The J15 did make it to the GCR back in 2004...........

    4-20.JPG
     
  3. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    Most railways don't have the paths available to run too many extra trains on gala events - so if the railway is busy, with lots wanting to travel, it becomes a choice between running a four coach "local" or regular 6-8 coach train. The local only works if it can be fitted in as an extra, or it uses high capacity non-corridor stock - and people don't mind sitting 8 or 9 abreast!
     
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  4. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    The other issue is that even a small tender engine still requires two lorry movements in each direction, so the transport costs are not dissimilar to a much larger engine that can haul more load or, conversely, double what a small tank engine would be that can haul a similar load.

    Tom
     
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  5. M59137

    M59137 Active Member

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    I can believe that. I once asked a member of the M&GN Society board why they had "held back" the J15 from visiting other lines for galas. This was after I'd noticed it hadn't gone on holiday for about two years. His reply was simple: "we didn't hold it back, nobody asked us to borrow it"!!

    Sent from my HTC Desire 620 using Tapatalk
     
  6. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Active Member

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    Unfortunately there often seems to be a desire to headline a "big engine" (big chuffer?!?!?) for galas, rather than a medium sized or small loco, no matter how beautiful.
    I'll admit to being guilty myself of making the extra effort on occasion to attend galas with big famous express locos rather than lovely branch line engines. This is of course entirely counter to my oft expressed views on the matter of appropriate motive power for preserved lines!
    Part of it, I think, is the desire to run things which look ok with Mk 1 coaches - essentially locos in BR livery - because of photographers. Since few lines have a rake of pre-WW1 GER carriages...
    Hence why in my view a greater variety and antiquity of carriage stock is a much greater priority and importance than new build locos or restoring any more Pacifics...!
     
  7. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    Absolutely so. Hopefully the forthcoming Channel 4 series will provide something of a "push" as well.

    Paul H
     
  8. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    I think also with a tender engine, one wants it to be of a certain power so it can cope with sufficiently large loads in order to pay off the larger transport costs needed to move its two component parts. The issue you have with the J15 is that it is, for the cost of transportation, a fairly weak locomotive, and so probably could not cope with heavier, gala-strength trains at a number of 'premier' preserved railways. For smaller railways, it is similar power to Wissington, and less powerful than Ring Haw, which are two other M&GNS locos available for hire, but will cost less to move (and hire fees may well be smaller too). In fact, for railways which wish to hire the J15 (like the SVR), it probably works in their favour if few other railways do so, as that way it will be more of a unique event and has the potential to draw in more punters, thus increasing the revenue they can get from it. But I am a little surprised that it hasn't made a few more visits since its return to action
     
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  9. Hicks19862

    Hicks19862 Member

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    Didn't know that the J15 was less powerful than Ring Haw.
     
  10. MuzTrem

    MuzTrem Active Member

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    As a general rule I agree with you. Moreover, I have to say that vintage coaches are as much - in some cases, more - of an incentive for me to visit a particular line than the motive power. It's difficult to see the motive power once you are one the train...so unless your railway has exceptional scenery then the coach you are travelling in is a key part of the experience...and I've already ridden on enough Mk. 1s in my time!
     
  11. eddyboy_90

    eddyboy_90 New Member

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    J15 is certainly more powerful than Ring Haw, and has the advantage of being an engine actually designed to deal with passenger traffic. Wissington is of much lower power than both. Ring Haw is also not an M&GN loco - it’s NNR owned.

    And not a lot of the J15 is actually that old anymore!
     
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  12. pete2hogs

    pete2hogs Active Member

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    J15's are on record as working 7/8 coach trains. At 25mph it should be fine.
     
  13. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    I spy, with my little eye, something beginning with big ch.........!:)

    PH
     
  14. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    Paul, you don't have to bring this up at every single opportunity. We know you have an opinion. You don't need to continuously shout it out like somebody standing in the corner repeatedly banging a gong. It doesn't take long (or perhaps any time at all) for everybody else to find it rather tiresome.
     
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  15. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    Well the loco may be perceived as weak enough that railways will not enquire to the point where their perception can be contradicted. Besides, if the North Norfolk have nominally limited the loco to 4 coaches (admittedly up a 1 in 60), that does suggest that at some railways it may not be capable (or desirable) for it to take a 7 or 8 coach load fully laden with punters

    My mistake about the ownership, but I thought that Ring Haw had at least a greater tractive effort than the J15? And from appearances both have a similar-ish sized boiler so one would expect a similar steaming capability? And weren't the Hunslet 16inchers designed to be capable of a degree of sustained power output, such as hauling coal trains up a branch from a pit?
     
  16. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Part of the furniture

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    I wonder if 7 coaches would be acceptable with a max gradient of 1 in 150 just for a weekend... *Cough* @andyb :)
     
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  17. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    I'd certainly be interested in that. Isn't there some sort of significant reopening which could justify a celebratory gala happening next year? ;)
     
  18. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Didn't you have the J15 (as it was) visit a few years ago?
     
  19. eddyboy_90

    eddyboy_90 New Member

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    I believe the J15 has greater tractive effort figures than a Hunslet 16in, though the gap between the two is hardly a chasm.

    I would also personally rate the J15 as better for sustained steam production/long distance boiler management. At the end of the day most ex-industrials are designed for relatively short distances with heavy loads at low speeds. Even on heritage lines, asking them to rattle along at 25mph for several miles with 4/5 Mk Is can be a bit beyond what they were originally designed to do.
     
  20. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    Wouldn't have mentioned it if but for your posting.

    PH
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017

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