ORR to Reduce Mainline Train Lengths - the end of 12/13/14 coach trains

For clarity, the speeds are as follows:

For 1 locomotive and 1,2 or 3 vehicles; line speed of 90mph or above - 75mph. Line speed of 85mph or below 60mph (in other words, the same restriction as a light locomotive).

One locomotive and 4, 5 or 6 vehicles; line speed of 100mph or above - 90mph. Line speed of 90 or 95mph - 80mph. Line speed of 80 or 85mph - 75mph.

So, in fact, any reduction in coaches is very unlikely to have any effect on the majority of steam-hauled trains as they're already limited to 75mph anyway.

 

Would make a change seeing small locos out on the mainline besides the big express engines were normaly used to. The smallest we have are the 2 5700's that are at Tyseley but they havent been seen on the mainline for quite a while. Locos that I would love to see out would besides the 5700's are a large prairie, Manor, Jinty, 4300, Ivatt class 2 tank, Ivatt class 2 2-6-0 or even a BR Standard class 4 tank. Wouldn't be ideal for the long distance high speed runs as water would be an issue for some but if you could run them on small trips that don't go too far. An Ivatt tank would be good for a trip to Keighley from Preston. The Manor's would also be ideal for a trip up the Cambrian Coast but the problem with that idea's the ERTMS. Wasn't there even some talk a while ago that Ian Riley had bought the jinty tank from Llangollen for possible mainline use on local runs from Manchester. 46441 Was also active on the mainline till the late 90's and now she's on display in the museum at the Ribble Steam Railway. Wasn't there even a 1400 tank on runs to Newton Abbot.

 

One of the BR 80xxx tank locos did some 4 coach Carlisle-Kirkby Stephen-Carlisle runs a few years ago. Loco and date escape me at the moment. I think it was in conjunction with passing out Carlisle crews on steam. They carried passengers and were nice little jaunts. I seem to remember they were 'all stations' as well!

 

Keighley to Preston - hope you're not thinking of going via Skipton and Colne.

 

You know what I mean, Preston via Carnforth & Hellifield to Keighley. Water stops wouldn't be too bad if engine had decent sized tanks.

 

In terms of fitting out it costs the same to fit out a class 4/5 as it does a 7/8.
But a smaller loco cant command the same hiring fees to recoup that cost so theres less of an incentive/ more of a strain on the pocket.
Then theres the doubling up of crew costs and the general scarcity of crew ( though a two loco combination is a fair ' Trainees' turn), getting both locos to the same place can add cost and complexity ( unless they are both from the same stable)...
Still where theres a will... ( a pair of schools ? or one with 777 ?) ...

 

I suppose you could consider a 4MTT + water carrier, but it could get messy if you had to run round for the return.

 

Not a problem if you turn on a triangle, though, surely?

Isn't one of the issues with a water carrier that you essentially add 1.5 coaches in weight for zero passengers in revenue? So it would be a bit counter-productive if this issue is about reducing trailing load!

Tom

 

And can run a hose from the carrier to both engines.

 

To clarify, I was envisaging a 4mtt on a branch etc. One loco, no triangle.

 

Would the same restrictions apply to a locomotive that was designed to run equally well in reverse ?

 

Feb/Mar '93 IIRC

 

Yes, it was. Loco was 80080 and on 20-2-93 she worked the Citadel Express from Bradford to Carlisle with 7 coaches.

 

'93! FFS.....how time does fly by......

 

Best part if a quarter if a century, that's all!
Couldn't believe it myself when I worked it out.

 

A tank engine would be no good on a normal main line tour though because it would slug the permitted speed.

I'm not sure how much is out there in the 3P or 4P region with 6'3 or better drivers and potential mainline rating of 60mph or preferably 75... looking at Steamindex COT is only rated to 60mph which is pretty amusing when you think about it, and Repton at 45mph which seems surprisingly low. Potentially the T9 I suppose, what else?

 

Repton's 45 limit is due to it being cleared for running to Whitby and along the Esk Valley only and thus does not carry the electronic gubbins needed for higher speeds.

 

Isn't speed based on wheel size? On that basis with 6' 8" drivers wouldn't COT be a 75mph machine?

 

The cynic in me suggests the Department of Transport don't want people crammed in shoulder to shoulder in their 2 car unit knowing that long trains with ample capacity are indeed possible...

 

I agree, reasonable loads for different types is sensible, but the idea than a class 5 is free to haul 11 like a class 8 just looks plain daft.

They might run smaller passengers loads, but where does this leave Tyseley regarding the Water Carrier and it's weight fully laden ?, a hard and fast rule as opposed to one based on loco, load and route is hard to fathom.