P2 Locomotive Company and related matters

just caught up with this to discover the name of the loco, I like the idea of naming it after the prince for his 65th, But I agree another of his Titles would be far more appealing, particularly "Lord of the Isles" although if it is a marketing ploy, fair enough, makes sense. I'm sure I've heard of "Lord of the Isles" in a railway context before, can anyone think of anything? It might only be a small narrow gauge loco or something, but I'm sure there is/was something...

 

LNER K4 2-6-0 61996.

 

My broad assumption - difficult to gauge, I know - is that you aren't loco and this was said tongue in-cheek...

Tom

 

Not tongue-in-cheek, I'm sure I've heard of it somewhere, can't think where, and I doubt it's that K4, I'm only 14, and that was withdrawn in 1961!

by your comments Tom, I assume I am missing something obvious?

 

OK, not my photo:

http://www.spellerweb.net/rhindex/UKRH/GreatWestern/Broadgauge/LordoftheIsles.jpg

One of a class of 4-2-2 locos that were the backbone of Great Western services between Paddington and the west during the mid nineteenth century. Lord of the Isles became famous after exhibion at the Great Exhibition of 1851. Relative to other locomotives of their era, they were of a size and power not seen before and rarely equalled afterwards for many years. Whenever anyone says Lord of the Isles, this is what comes to mind, K4 or otherwise. (Just as, for me, Prince of Wales brings up an image of an LNWR loco, regardless of any others that have carried that name).

There is a working replica in the NRM.

I believe there was a second Lord of the Isles on the Great Western later in the nineteenth century, this time standard gauge; like some other names, it was a name that was recycled through different locomotives.

Tom

 

Hornby did a model of a GWR Dean Single Wheeler which was called "Lord of the Isles" which is quite famous you might know it from that.

 

Oh dear, I see what Tom means now

I do know a little of those locos, and they ring a vague bell, probably it is the hornby model, as I am into model railways too, maybe that's where the narrow gauge bit came in!

 

Perhaps you've seen 62005, which often carries the Lord of the Isles name when on West Highland duty?

 

Steve, yes that is likely it as it was ringing a bell with me as well and I couldn't place it until you mentioned the occasional temporary renaming

 

Or even Lord Kinnock. Let us leave yah-boo politics out of this for now.

 

Having just learned about the name announcement myself, I have to say it's a good choice, if somewhat not too surprising as I'm sure that was one of the more frequently rumored names.

Now I'll agree in saying that it's a pity that it doesn't have a name of Scottish origin, being more appropriate for the P2 class. But in all honesty I must confess (and I mean no offence to the Scottish) that as far as names go, that would be striking and internationally recognisable, besides Loch Ness, Macbeth and perhaps even Mighty Scotsman, I just couldn't think of a good enough scottish name that would be as widely recognized and memorable as the likes of Flying Scotsman or Tornado, though I'd like to add that Lord of the Isles would be a strong contender in my view. Not to mention, I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks the original P2s had the oddest names right? Well, apart from Wolf of Badenoch, as that name has always sounded so cool to me...

Ultimately for me though, the name has to fit right for such a grand and mighty machine as a new P2. Lightning is an interesting thought, but personally I don't think it would catch people's attention as much, Prince of Wales though does have a good ring to it, and certainly works with the almost regal and grandness the P2's appearance I feel gives off. Plus, as pointed out Prince of Wales is a popular name for steam locomotives, I know even a few miniature atlantic wheel type locomotives that have carried that name. Good choice all round I think, certainly in a marketing point of view its a no brainer, a fine name.

Now on to building the locomotive itself...!

 

As I detailed in post #201, the chosen name does not really follow the "Scottish" themes of the original class members, although if you look at the actual list in my post the names did come from a rather eclectic mix of Scottish connections. Perhaps "Duke of Rothesay" would have continued the theme, but how many people south of the border would make the connection that HRH Prince of Wales does hold that Scottish title? Maybe not the best marketing choice on reflection.

Back to the hardware, and it is interesting to note that 2007 is going to an "improved" Gresley class P2, the website makes it clear that they will deal with some of the shortcomings of the originals, for instance the front pony truck, and I think it right of them to make this distinction right at the outset.

I wonder how far you can change/modify an original design before you lose "Grandfather" rights, or will they in effect be starting from a blank sheet in terms of the necessary approvals?

46118

 

Too funny for words!

 

Thought you'd like it!

 

Perhaps you were thinking of this

http://www.calmac.co.uk/on-board-ships-guide/MV Lord of the Isles Onboard Guide.pdf

 

Any locomotive that is to run on the national network has to meet all relevant modern standards apart from a limited number of specific unavoidable derogations. Some of those derogations might be in the nature of "Grandfather" rights, but those could surely only apply to locomotives that were in regular operation towards the end of steam on BR, not to a design that was radically modified in the 1940s because of recognised problems, including reputedly unkindness to the track.

The P2 did start with a blank sheet, but the preliminary feasibility studies have already started to fill that sheet in.

 

But the F35Bs are quite likely to enter service aboard HMS Prince of Wales - naming the P2 after one of the Royal Navy's new carriers follows the link of naming Tornado after the principle RAF strike jet. (And of course there is already the Patriot for an Army link. Mind you, there is a campaign to have HMS Prince of Wales renamed HMS Ark Royal.....)

Steven

 

How about HMS Troutbridge?

Left hand down a bit! Oh lummy...

Tom