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P2 Locomotive Company and related matters

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by class8mikado, Sep 13, 2013.

  1. Cartman

    Cartman Member

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    it is correct for the design, and the only ones it can sensibly carry are green, and, I assume, unlined black, for the world war 2 period. I'm guessing on that as I know very little about P2s.

    Btw, I thought the red looked silly
     
  2. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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  3. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Part of the furniture Friend

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    If this locomotive is going to be representative of its forebears 2001/2002, it can only carry one colour: LNER Green.

    Unlined black was only applied to them after 2001/2002 had been rebuilt with the A4 front end; with 'LNER' on the tender from 11/41, 'N E' from mid-1942 IIRC.

    You could argue that if 2007 really is "the next in the class" then it should have been built with the A4 front and Walschaerts valve gear, as 2003 - 2006 were built.
     
  4. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Part of the furniture Friend

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    IIRC the major driver of building the P2 as originally designed was so it was unmistakeable; one of the A1 bigwigs said at a roadshow shortly after they announced "we're building a P2" that as Tornado had been mistaken for Flying Scotsman by ordinary members of the public, they didn't want people saying "is that Mallard?" if they gave it the same front end that 2006 had.
     
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  5. 8126

    8126 Member

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    I've heard a member of the public identify Mayflower as Green Arrow, on a train hauled by the former, which is a slightly more informed misidentification, but I reckon a P2 may still end up being confused with the most famous of LNER engines. That or Joem, on colour grounds...
     
  6. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    Yes, that is a possible argument, but there is a contrary argument. The A4 front and Walschaerts valve gear were adopted because of problems with the original W1(?) style front and the poppet valves. The new P2 is the next in the class but with different solutions to those problems. In an alternative universe, if Thompson and Peppercorn had concentrated on other classes and never got around to rebuilding the P2s, and then soon after nationalisation BR had decided to have a go at dealing with their real and perceived faults, one of them might have had one of BR's experimental liveries, and all of them might have ended up in BR green. I have no objection at all to this new one being turned out in apple green, but I believe there is a valid case for other liveries some of the time.
     
  7. Cartman

    Cartman Member

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    Maybe. Although you could argue that if, say the T3 had lasted another couple of years, it would have been 30563, so do it black?
     
  8. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if there is any chance that the P2 could be given the A4 front treatment at its 10 year overhaul? Obviously a new smokebox would be needed and the valve gear is "inauthentic" but it would certainly give a whole new look - and range of livery options!
    I know that the "other" group are building one, but how long will that be before steaming?
     
  9. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    Dont think there is any chance whatsoever unless someone makes an offer too good to refuse.
     
  10. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Well-Known Member

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    I live in hope!
    Still, it would be interesting to see how much money could be raised if the P2 had a ringfenced "A4 front" fund as per their tender/boiler/motion funds.
     
  11. 61624

    61624 Well-Known Member

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    What other livery options would that give? AFAIK all the P2s were rebuilt to A2s before nationalisation, sothe only two authentic options remain LNER: apple green and wartime black. If it is desired to paint it some other colour why would a different smokebox shape be necessary?
     
  12. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Part of the furniture Friend

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    Given the problems they had even after modification I'm tempted to say they'd have been early candidates for the cutter's torch. I'm amazed the W1 lived on after its little "brown trousers" moment at Peterborough in 1955.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2021
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  13. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Well-Known Member

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    I realise there would only be two "Authentic" options ...but, as the A4 front would not be "Authentic" with the poppet valve gear, then whatever the livery choice would be inauthentic and thus allow more possibilities .....for publicity and on going support from a possibly wider base.
     
  14. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I suspect you are probably over estimating the size of that wider base. Do you really think there is a significant audience out there who would be minded to support an A4-style front end, but who are not already enthused enough to donate to getting the basic loco up and running?

    Tom
     
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  15. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Part of the furniture Friend

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    I know they're up against the behemoth that is the A1 trust, but a group does still exist that wants to build a P2 with an A4 front - the Doncaster P2 Locomotive Trust. I'm sure they'd welcome donations.
     
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  16. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Well-Known Member

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    Hi Tom
    Given the popularity of "The Great Gathering" of the six A4s at the NRM......and, given the likely reality of only One running A4 (SNG) in the future, I think there is a wider base. I do agree that it is fantastic to get the basic locomotive up and running. It is just that keeping such publicly funded locomotives in the public's eye is crucial to their success.
     
  17. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    Theres probably more chance of seeing a streamlined B17...
     
  18. DismalChips

    DismalChips Member

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    Might be a few years off, but Bittern will be running again. At the Crewe open day in June 19 the new firebox was on display under construction. I know Jeremy Hosking's not short a bob or two but I doubt even he'd spend money on something like that with no intention to use it.

    EDIT; I knew I had a photo somewhere:[​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2021
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  19. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Well-Known Member

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    Here's hoping!:).....and it is good news about Bittern.
     
  20. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    They cut the frames six years ago and haven't made anything since, although they say that they have enough to have the frames erected (I'm not sure if that means they have funds to cast/fabricate the stretchers and dragboxes, get the frames drilled etc or some kind of temporary bracing).
    At that rate of fund raising it'll be 50 years or more before it's nearing completion!
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2021

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