If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

P2 Locomotive Company and related matters

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by class8mikado, Sep 13, 2013.

  1. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,769
    Likes Received:
    60,042
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Project managers tend to say "you can have it on time, on budget and to spec - which two do you want? (And then they deliver none of them in any case ;) )

    Tom
     
  2. misspentyouth62

    misspentyouth62 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    1,494
    Likes Received:
    1,915
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    34D, now flexible
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I have a question that has been on my mind for a long time and never got round to asking - not specific to the P2 but related to the fitting of coupling rods :

    When a loco under build / overhaul or restoration has wheels and axles fitted into the horn guides and frames, the crankpins often look out of alignment and yet to fit the coupling rods onto the crankpins, they need to be exactly aligned. How are the main wheel sets / axles rotated in the frames to achieve this alignment if the axles are taking load? (this may seem like a really stupid question to those who do this in their sleep! ) :)
     
  3. osprey

    osprey Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2007
    Messages:
    9,731
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Occupation:
    semi-retired, currently doing R&D for my patents
    Location:
    Halifax
    Not at all ..good question.
     
    misspentyouth62 likes this.
  4. misspentyouth62

    misspentyouth62 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    1,494
    Likes Received:
    1,915
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    34D, now flexible
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I also came across plenty of clients that wanted the world, for free and yesterday! :)
    In my world, delivery management was always about managing expectations of my client and the governance for the decisions, risks and compromise agreed along the way.
     
  5. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    Messages:
    4,115
    Likes Received:
    5,378
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    N.Ireland
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer

    Hope this helps:
     
  6. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Part of the furniture Account Suspended

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,529
    Likes Received:
    2,835
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chester le Street County Durham
    misspentyouth62 likes this.
  7. Cosmo Bonsor

    Cosmo Bonsor Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2014
    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    501
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    If the axle boxes have wedges, they are slackened off, so the box is loose in the horns.
    Then a spare herbert jumps up and down on a pinch bar to turn the wheel set.
    Not difficult just fiddly.
    This way wouldn't damage paint on the wheels either.
     
    Bluenosejohn and misspentyouth62 like this.
  8. misspentyouth62

    misspentyouth62 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    1,494
    Likes Received:
    1,915
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    34D, now flexible
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Thanks for the responses - brute force manipulation is probably what I had imagined. In some cases you see a six-coupled locomotive with rods removed where all three axles & crankpins are completely misaligned so jimmy-bars do the trick and until now, never seen being done.
     
  9. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Messages:
    7,800
    Likes Received:
    2,737
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Engineer & Heritage Volunteer
    Location:
    N Warks
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Can I ask where the “P2 Update” quote came from please?
     
  10. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    12,131
    Likes Received:
    10,499
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I’m surprised at them putting the rods on with the crank pins at six o’clock. I was always taught to do it with them at three or nine o’clock. This way the wheels are at a point where slight rotational misalignment has minimal affect on the centre distance and you also know that you have got your bearing centres right. Moving the loco to place the other side similarly then corrects any rotational error.
    The only time I put rods on at six o’clock is if the loco hasn’t been moved since they were taken off. It’s less height to lift them.
     
  11. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    Messages:
    4,115
    Likes Received:
    5,378
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    N.Ireland
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Hi @Sheff it came from the latest P2 news update on their website, I just used the NP quote system to show where it came from
     
  12. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Messages:
    7,800
    Likes Received:
    2,737
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Engineer & Heritage Volunteer
    Location:
    N Warks
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Thanks. Just seems odd for them when normally great care is taken not to take the ‘big hammer’ approach - They have Materson pillar jacks etc available.
     
    ghost likes this.
  13. goldfish

    goldfish Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    15,605
    Likes Received:
    13,450
    Third para of the Desmond (2/2/22) update at https://www.p2steam.com/category/news/ in case you wanted to read the text at source…

    Simon
     
    Sheff likes this.
  14. 242A1

    242A1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,559
    Likes Received:
    1,300
    The first set of rods had been fitted for the 2021 convention, the https://www.p2steam.com/category/news/ makes this clear on the second line.

    So what we are being shown is the second set being fitted. The first set had the crank pins set by eye to be at the same angle: we are not given any information about this angle, it could have been at three o'clock or nine. The engine is nowhere near its full weight so oiling the rail contact area and making use of a crowbar to slightly adjust the wheels if necessary might have been, on balance, the best option. At least the sets will remain in position once adjusted.

    What are we going to presented with next? More news from Howco in Irvine about the cylinder block construction or a report on progress of the valve gear development? The boilers under construction at Meiningen must be well advanced by now because Tornado is due to be tested in June complete with new boiler so we might get a progress report about these. Though every aspect of progress is welcome the cylinders and valve gear are the areas which interest me the most.
     
  15. clinker

    clinker Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2016
    Messages:
    612
    Likes Received:
    372
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    romford
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
     
    LMS2968 likes this.
  16. 242A1

    242A1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,559
    Likes Received:
    1,300
    Are you commenting on the setting of the wheels on their axles (90 degrees, 120 degrees or another figure specially calculated to delivery the best and smoothest output) or on the slight manoeuvring of the wheelsets which might be needed in order to fit the coupling rods?
     
  17. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Messages:
    7,800
    Likes Received:
    2,737
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Engineer & Heritage Volunteer
    Location:
    N Warks
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    The latter I believe.
     
  18. 242A1

    242A1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,559
    Likes Received:
    1,300
    I think that Clinker is commenting on the former, which is fair enough in itself but has little to do with how the P2 team fitted the coupling rods to their engine. At least it isn't like introducing the GWR and Collett to the 563 thread.
     
  19. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Messages:
    7,800
    Likes Received:
    2,737
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Engineer & Heritage Volunteer
    Location:
    N Warks
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Oh sorry I hadn’t seen his comment
     
  20. misspentyouth62

    misspentyouth62 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    1,494
    Likes Received:
    1,915
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    34D, now flexible
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    My question related to settings the axles so the crankpins are aligned for placement of the coupling rods. In this image, we see new driving wheels in 1014 but crankpins are currently miles off so to fit the rods, one or other of these wheel sets has to be manually turned whilst maintaining a static locomotive.
    Setting the wheel on the axle at the correct angle (modellers will understand the term 'quartering') is something different.

    IMG_1567.JPG
     

Share This Page