Paignton and Dartmouth Railway

A nameplate is much easier to grin and bear/photoshop than the whole livery! A nameplate can also be easily removed if they decide to run an enthusiasts weekend (creating more income).


Keith

 

I dont mind what colour they paint them, as a matter of fact most preserved steam locos are unauthentic unless they are VERY dirty. People forget the squalor that Steam created, probably just as well.

 

I'm an enthusiast and it really doesn't matter to me what color they are painted as long as its not demeaning - Thomas liveries can be a bit much, and I wouldn't want a Bullied painted yellow, but all the P&D engines are painted brunswick green, aren't they? Swindon would probably have done it themselves if they had enough paint!

The fact is the locos are in good condition and doing a job of work - there are other lines that go into 'authenticity' - although very few (if any) working locos are truly authentic to the last detail for any stage in their BR or pre-BR life.

 

Ah the old livery debate, don't you just love it!! I personally don't mindthe liveries and as pointed out family's i.e. the people who pay the bills on a regular basis (goes back to earlier post) like the names a few times I've been on the platform and a small child has run onto the platform and gone its such and such and their parents then start listing the names.
Playing devils advocate for a mo the nameplates do add a sense of familiarity with the locos which can't do any harm, I remember I used to do it when I was younger, and now I'm quite involved and spend quite a lot of my hard earned cash on quite a few of the railways around the country. As such the names may be helping every other line in the future??

You forget in the "great days of steam" every railway company had a different livery at least the PDSR have kept the livery almost authentic with their own little twist??

As for Kingswear the volunteers from Churston do maintenance on it from time to time but they probably don't have the manpower to maintain both stations or at least not properly, maybe some of the very vocal posters could consider it??

 

Really? I was under the impression that the railways employed cleaners... or did they just do the toilets? 8-[

 

Don't mind the ENGINE names and I can understand the commercial logic.

Change the livery to correct GWR or BR green and I can guarantee not one passenger will be lost. I am nearly 40 and can not remember green diesels so who holidaying in Torbay with a family as even heard of the GWR let alone remember the liveries - I can assure you not very many!

Also make the move for enthusiasts and I am sure a few more volunteers will turn up at Kingswer.

Cheers,

 

In fact, I think it would be better if instead of 'Great (crest) Western' on the tanksides it said 'Paignton (crest) Dartmouth'.
One way of looking at it is that these locos are not technically 'preserved'. They are worked hard by a company for a profit and maintained to an extremely high standard. Surely this is just a continuation of their working lives and not being preserved as a working museum piece?
Dont get me wrong, I can count rivets too and a big fan of authentic liveries and practices etc, but I dont think the PDSR is that kind of operation. Otherwise I would bang on about those hideous buildings at Churston

 

I can't really see what the problem is.
If you're an enthusiast & want authenticity, go to the SDR.
If you just want a ride on a steam train, use the P&DR

 

The Paignton and Dartmouth line is a great railway, and totally different in character from the South Devon Rly. I enjoy both lines.

I don't want to carp and whinge about details, but to my mind you should either go for totally authentic - risky because we railway enthusiasts are notoriously pedantic and will always find fault - or you go for your own identity. I found the Dart Valley Railway (painted on the pannier tank 1638 IIRC) livery that they had in late 60s and early 70s quite attractive - a local railway company image. Some of the trucks at Kingswear have a 'Dart Rail' insignia that wouldn't look bad. Keighley and Worth Valley Railway did this well at the time as well. But going for a Great Western image and not getting it quite right looks a bit odd. The new boss seems likely to make the tweaks that will make an already great railway even better. Looking forward to May!

John

 

Some valid arguments, but as I suggested earlier, from a pure commercial aspect (which is certainly how the P&DSR look at things) IF an authentic livery policy will attract presently put-off customers in sufficient numbers to exceed the cost of any re-painting, then - like any commercial move to maximize revenues - it has to be done. There need not be any other considerations.

What is needed is an accurate survey of exactly how many more people (and hence £££) would visit the line if the livery issue was addressed. This will determine if there is a business case to do it or not. A good place to start would be a poll on this forum, as it reaches a fair proportion of the relevant audience.

 

Really? I was under the impression that the railways employed cleaners... or did they just do the toilets? 8-[[/quote:1seo4ui4]


Thats why I said "most", Even back in the good old days locos were rarely clean becuase of their very nature and I would guess that very few members of this forum remember clean locos other than ex-works examples.
So what is iimportant is NOW having them clean as the Public will not relate to them dirty. Clean but almost any colour with almost any name will do

 

I just wonder if the liveries would make that much difference, far from being a rivet counter myself it might be more appealing if paint jobs were as in these pics taken at Buckfastleigh and Totnes in the mid 80's when it was DVR. The tourist market that P&DSR aims at will always remember they travelled behind Trojan, Hercules etc. and rode it whatever carriage.

 

I love the South Devon but it is totally different to the Torbay line.

Mainline standards (it has always been passed for Kings!), heavy trains, big engines, fantastic scenery. It could be brilliant and attract enthuisiasts like the SVR, GC or NYMR without losing a single 'normal' passenger.

I wouldn't expect things to change overnight but at each repaint turn something out in an authenthic livery. Give it a year or two and they could have at least one authenthic liveried rake. Then it could move onto the other things to put the line firmly on the preserved railway map.

PS I think the Dart Rail logo on wagons and the 25 looks daft esp as most of them are in a version of their old livery. Not one thing or another.

 

Oh I don't know, it probably depends on what period in time you define as the 'good old days'. Not to say that things ever matched today's anti-septic level of cleanliness, but I doubt that the conditions of the postwar railway network (which is what most people now remember) provide an accurate reflection on the previous 140 years.

Anyway, I for one can't say that I'm too fussed about the incorrect liveries, in any case it's pretty acedemic when painted on a welded tank. As Corbs says, the entire railway isn't really geared towards preservation, but it seems to do a pretty good job of what it does. I'd certainly like to pay a visit sometime.

 

If you look at the PDR as being an independent railway that just happens to use steam locos and not as a heritage railway you can't fail to be impressed. It has bought the outworn assets of British Railways (as it then was) and overhauled them and put them to good use. Isn't that what Col. Stephens used to do and everybody applauded? He didn't paint the locos and coaches he purchased in authentic original liveries but chose his own style. The only difference between a Col Stephens line of yesterday and the PDR of today is ownership.

 

The market for steam railways is generally families and that certainly is the case in Torbay. As I said before very very few of these people know what the Great Western was. There are many railways have no real links to historic companies that are very succesful - Welsh Highland and many other Welsh ng for a start. Those that do remember the GW (now over 75!) would surely rather see an authenthic version? The only people who really care are enthusiasts so you might as well appease them by getting it right and take the extra revenue. Obvious commercial sense!

The truth may be that the painters (being non-enthusiasts?) don't know what the original livery was and they paint them in something that they think is appropriate? Ironically the true liveries would be easier and cheaper to paint therefore bringing in even more to the bottom line!

 

Even more reason to do it.

 

Thanks to all for your comments. Interesting.

Here at the PDSR we are looking, as i have said before, to change the railway. We sell our passengers an experience of the memories that people want to remember. Most of our passengers do not rememeber steam at all, let alone in GWR days. But they think of steam trains as being pretty, shiny, named and quiet. Not authentic. Just as most people think of old cars being stylish, cute and fun, not unreliable, polluting and poorly built. We are looking to catch up on some of the station building work that is needed but one step at a time. New facilities are planned for Paignton so watch this space.

The new site at Goodrington should help with the shuffling of stock on the line.

 

As a quick note, the engines on the line are not far off authentic, rare but authentic. The manors were all over the place. Also there are reports of a 72XX tank, 2-8-2T working the line in BR days hauling coal and PASSENGER trains to newton abbot. SO a 2-8-0T isnt too far from the truth.