Paignton and Dartmouth Railway

That's just it, isn't it! As a for-profit company, any move away from its current policy would have to be justified. Even if passenger numbers did begin to rise after locos and stock began to appear in authentic liveries, it would be difficult to attribute that rise to a change in livery policy.

Any change would therefore have to be driven from the top, for subjective reasons. Or perhaps in a move to appear more acceptable to the enthusiast fraternity rather than for commercial reasons.

Realistically, stock would not be taken out of traffic just to be repainted. This would probably happen over a period of time, as and when the vehicle was due in the works anyway.

Who knows, this might already be on the agenda for the next board meeting! \/


John.

 

As my nearest Steam Line I would love to see the P&DR have more of a heritage feel. Getting the rolling stock progressively repainted into authentic colours schemes, promoting Kingswear station as a heritage destination in itself and getting away from the company branded feeling I get when I go near the line. The extra lining on the coaching stock and the Dart Rail logos on the diesels etc leave me completely cold.

What the line does have for me are hard working steam engines and great scenery, with a little work I'm sure many more enthusiasts could be attracted to the line out of peak season, especially if the success of last April's enthusiast weekend is built on.

Jeff

 

If locos were in correct liveries how about money from photographic charters and other lines paying to borrow P&DSR locos for galas on other lines.


Paul

 

All these moans and complaints about locos and coaches not being in authentic livery mildly amuses me. Presumably it's those that wish to photograph them although I may be wide off the mark, there. Do these same people boycott the SVR because (say) 45110 is hauling the Gresley teak set or other unprototypical combination. Perhaps they keep away from the NYMR because 80135 runs around in BR green or the Bluebell with one of their splendidly restored pre-grouping locos on a rake of Southern green stock. It is virtually impossible to recreate a true scene from yesteryear, even if the loco and stock match. The ballast and general lineside give it away almost every time. Why not simply accept the PDR for what it is and go and enjoy the steam action and admire the efficiency and professionalism?

 

If we are unsure just how much more the line would take if locos were in correct livery, why not just repaint one as a trial?

This way they are not going to 'waste' the expense of all the paint and down time for 3 locos, just 1. To make sure they get the most out of this exercise though they would have to advertise which days the chosen loco was running, but surely that isn't too difficult?

 

Given the highly expensive task of repainting locos - remember that P&DSR locos are painted by professional, and thus paid, people and not free of charge by volunteers - it seems unlikely that any of the current operational fleet of 4277, 5239 and 7827 would be repainted. Their paintwork is in a very good state presently and therefore they do not need a repaint.
4555, although not currently operational, is also in very good condition as far as paintwork is concerned.

The only loco which will need a repaint sometime will be 75014 when its boiler is returned and the loco made fit for service. This, however, is at least a couple of years off. 4588 is still offered for sale and does not come within the scope of this thread.

One point that is often overlooked is that the bus fleet and boats are blue and white (with the exception of the red school contract bus) so maybe to have everything in true "house" colours the locos and rolling stock might be blue and white. Now that would rattle a few cages. :smt046

 

Steve,

You are right I am one of many who only visit lines when I know the past is to be recreated with something like authenthicity. Of course very few lines can perfectly recreate the past. For a start how many MK1s had commonwealth bogies in the 1950s, how many GW branchlines ever saw chocolate and cream MK1s, how many cross country lines such as the NYMR or SVR saw eight coach trains etc?? That said IMHO it is always nice to see something that is as close as possible to the past and so do many others - why are photo charters and Plandampfs so popular if this isn't the case? Also looking at the mags the vast majority of pics are of correct formations so that must aid their circulation.

Since Christmas I have been to Bodmin, Severn Valley and GC because I knew correct formations were being used (how great is this site among many others for good gen!!). All these railways gained financially from my visit. I was planning to go to the Mid Hants last weekend but found out the A4 was out so didn't bother. I rarely visit my local lines (WSR and Avon Valley) because engine/formations are often wrong and would rather travel to Swanage or MHR etc for some genuine SR formations.

We all make choices in how we enjoy our hobby and if the P&DR was more authenthic I certainly would spend more money there and I don't think anybody would spend any less!

Hopefully one day I will meet you watching a BR green manor on a rake of wedged maroon
Mk1s storming up to Churston...but unfortunately I don't think it will ever happen!

Best regards,

 

Blue and white has some dignity. Perhaps we should stop trying to pretend it's 1936 or even 1957, and accept that railways like everything else move on as the years go by. I suspect that if the railways had never been nationalised, the GWR as a modern profit-driven operation would be no more popular than First Great Western or Arriva Cross Country, and would have long ago abandoned Brunswick green.

Personally, I think most modern liveries fail when they split a loco or coach with vertical lines. I liked the old Virgin Cross Country red livery with white horizontal stripes. A 47 in that livery with a nice set of 8 or so coaches to match, going down to Kingswear would look great to my eyes.

I would, however, agree with Hunslets Finest that if a railway is claiming to recreate the past, then it should be as accurate as possible. But there will always be some giveaway in the general scene; most visitors would not accept being told to wear suits, white shirts and ties (male) and smart dresses (for the ladies) and carry heavy brown leather suitcases to look like 1930s tourists!

Sorry if this is going OT.

John

 

I am with nanstallion - replace the GWR kettles with some Brush on seven aircons and I would move to Dartmouth! I think 45064 might visit more often as well...

 

I wonder what colour for 75014 when the day comes? Lined BR Green would seem more tourist friendly than MT Line Black

 

In reply to the question of 'extra' cost in re-painting - I said a few pages back that the re-paints would have to occur as and when a vehicle was due, thereby not incurring any additional cost. Yes it would be a long process, but nothing changes that fast anyway!

As for the Std 4, BR black or green, but certainly NOT over-lined GWR green [-X

 

Well how many railways would survive with an autocoach service? SVR & NYMR have to run with 8 for the sheer number of visitors. You must be really sad not to visit railways because the coaches have the wrong bogies or the locomotives aren't true to the line. Its a 'heritage railway' meaning the stations, signs, buildings locomotives and coaching stock (to a point) are correct. I know I would rather see a 4575 Small Prairie on a 6 coach train working hard up Washford Bank than a Large Prairie on a 2 coach train just because its what it was like in the 30s-60s. Also you said about Photo Charters - these wouldn't happen if railways ran like they did in the 30s because there would be nothing special about it. On average more of 'Joe Public' visit steam railways each day rather than Enthusiasts.

 

=D> Well said. I think if you go to a railway just for the exact scenes of yesteryear you go for the wrong reasons! Come on, they're keeping steam alive!

 

I havn't posted on here for a while as I've been busy elsewhere!! (Only here tonight as I'm bored uploading my website).
As a person who visits the line regularly, each year or at least the last five, and ride on the train I think I can comment that I don't mind the liveries being slightly wrong. After all the line is still running and there for people to enjoy, the manor or even 5239 climbing the bank with load ten or more is an impressive sight, and one you will find hard to beat elsewhere.
We should be pleased these engines are still running and providing joy and living the "dream" with people on a day in day ou basis and not cut up for scrap.

At the end of the day I will visit the line as many times as I can again this year because I enjoy the trip, and am supporting a great heritage line to run.
As some of you say with things in the economy as they are shouldn't we all stop being petty complaining about slight livery inconsistances and support the line so it doesn't go bust, that is the more important concern for real fans of the line I'm sure.

 

Well said, Kelvin, spot on! =D> =D>

John.

 

I've pleased my one person today then, everyone will no oubt be annoyed

 

Mr Evans,

In my message I just pointed out that was near impossible to recreate the past perfectly, not that I wouldn't go to a railway because a coach had commonwealth bogies! If that was the case I would be sat at home a lot rather than being out enjoying authenthic looking preserved (not heritage!!!!) steam nearly every weekend. I am off to Folkestone on Sat. Bullieds didn't go down the branch and certainly not on green MK2s but from a distance it will look good as the engines and coaches match.

Reading through these posts no one has yet given a reason why authenthic liveries would reduce passenger numbers. Normals wouldn't notice and more enthusiasts would go. A way to boost passenger numbers in these difficult times...maybe...but I certainly won't be going until the Std 4 is back out or for the TBE.

Regards,

 

I am trying to make this point, but it feels a little like ](*,) . Pure logic dictates the liveries should be done properly. It pleases ALL, and so helps attract as many people as possible. What businessman would be content knowing tha potential customers may be staying away. I have still to hear a valid argument to the contrary.

Also, just to clarify my full support for the P&DSR (hence my desire to see them attract people with all interests by labouring the livery thing!)

 

Errrm, unless the green set comes back from Carnforth tomorrow, it looks like it'll be a rake of maroon Mk 1s instead. ECS move from Carnforth to Southall with 47787 this morning, the green set went up north earlier this week.