Peak Rail at Matlock.

thanks Ben and Dave,

I fully understand the idea of getting a foot in the door and letting it settle down for a while. thats always a good plan.

what Im struggling to grasp is the network rail stretch of line from the gate to platform 2.

that is Network rails track but theyre allowing peak rail trains onto it, even though theyre not mainline registered. so I imagine there is some special agreement there?
I was under the impression that sainsburys and network rail laid it and where going to donate it to peak rail?

How easy/difficult are Network rail to deal with? to me they seem like a huge faceless company.
who do peak rail meet with? whos the guy who makes the decisions? is it a local inspector, high end managers etc. do peak rail have to send letters off or is there a man they can phone.....
do all preserved railways around the country speak to the same man or group of people? or is it regionalised?


I do still think the run round under the bridge would be the best option, sprung points, a light from network rail to give the right away (similar to the welsh highlands network rail crossing), im wondering if the cost for that , if they could get around the mainline registered bit, would be more cost effective than running, crewing, maintaining an extra loco.


regards locos waiting around blowing off etc in riverside station area, I do think that will attract a small amount of tourists,enthusiasts to it. wanting to photograph it etc.
not a real problem as such but can just see it happening

cheers

Mike

 

having been so much written since i last came on the other night il try to answer some of the questions as easily as i can.

who do we deal with in NR;

we deal with both local operations and national operations staff,management and operators as the proposals affect many different operators not just PR or NR locally, all have been involved in the discussions for some time now,NR have some very good and knowledgeable persons on their end,after all the company is formed from the staff who came down through BR and Railtrack and there are knowledgeable staff out there who have both simple and good ideas and know how to progress these forward in a simple and realistic manner.

beyond that im afraid names are buisness details i cannot release.

on the subject of carriage registering, technically as you say the trackwork into P2 is no more than a long extension of the current siding, NR could if they wished place stock in there as it is part of their network, we have discussed with HMRI/ORR ways in which the carriages can be operated into P2 and a way forward has been agreed upon based around the criteria that Heritage lines deem their own stock capable and safe for carrying passengers on as part of safety management systems of rail operators,beyond that once again any exact details are closed buisness details which i wont release.

i would summise that other similar lines such as the Barry railway and the Spa Valley Railway have similar discussions especially in relation to how the Spa Valley will be working into Eridge,which is similar to a degree both in infrastructure and ops on the ground. i know for instance that the testing of the mobile phone with NR`s local signalbox at Barry was part of their safety of operations,as i consulted this long long ago when putting the operations ideas for P2 together,also the Spa valley line will be operating alongside NRs main line whereas were on a long siding and platform,so theyres will be an even more complicated document than ours.

as with any bay ideas the problem would be that youd only be able to exit at the riverside end without affecting the single line to ambergate,the timetable or needing the token ,so you may as well use your own siding space at Riverside for less hassle,unless you put a lot of cash into design,changes to operations and signalling and safety cases to use the ground frame there and use the token system such as the NYMR do at Grosmont,they did have a lot of assistance there from staff who volunteered their time to effect the changes at Grosmont,they also have a permanent s&t engineer in line with their operations to whitby as far as their operating document says.

it would have been nice years ago to have had a seperate platform like many lines in the country do,but land purchase by others and the redevelopment of the area change things quickly and as usual heritage railways get the small end of any deal so wel do the best we can with what weve got..

hope that answers some of the questions and permits some good open discussion of ideas, im guessing your from a similar heritage operation which may be lookming at similar future operations alongside NR.?..

 

missed one of your questions; on the subject of spring points on main lines, im thinking you mean hydrostatic points as you mentioned the Welsh Highland ,

these points in my personal opinion are one of the best ideas that ever came out, however theyre going rapidly out of favour, while at the P&DSR earlier in the year we were treated to a full signalling overview of the line, the engineer on the P&DSR mentioned at the time that the safety verification of the pressurising of the gas system on the point mechanism is a major problem, indeed NR are now replacing these when they can ,and several sets are due/have gone in line with the ERTMS/RETB changeovers on the Cambrian line, even the engineer himself cant get the redundant items for the P&DSR and hes in charge of at least one of the removal projects so that raises issues with the availability of the items.

shame as a point operating idea and mechanism they are far ahead in terms of cost savings and simplicity, it would be nice if a lot of the heritage lines could find a way forward on the point operating mechanisms and either get a joint order direct in to the manufacturer (and get round the current SMS issues) and therefore reduce costs or get one of the up and coming systems such as the WHR`s version approved for standard gauge operation.

I was recently over in the isle of Man to view the signalling there and was shown all round the island and its operations, over there the IOMSR uses mechanical signal detection to fulfil both the locking of facing points and signal proving in one go, simple use of the current technology and allows simple operations at loops,and its been in and used for a long time without real problems, so if they can do it with their slightly smaller gauge then why cannot we update the times and put ideas like this into a mdern context and update them to suit say HR operations.

anyhow getting back to the subject of Matlock, one of the options i considered a long time ago from about seven different versions for operations into P2 was that of a ground frame locked off the token key coming into matlock so we could use the other platform as a run round,however at the time the service was hourly,now its half hourly and this idea was dropped on grounds that we could very quickly cause problems to either EMT or ourselves if one of either operators trains goes off timetable.

some more there to think upon.

 

thanks for a great reply

I didnt want to know names of people at NR, just in general, how negotiations worked.

great stuff

cheers

Mike

 

"how negotiations worked".---usually long and complicated process`, but easier once everyone has pictures and drawings to see where everything is!

one day i may be able to show you the hundred or so page book thats developed amounting to the project, i think a while ago i put a small fraction of the signalling side for riverside on our own railways forum site and it filled about 3-4 pages worth, i know Pete was chatting with a colleague a few weeks back over the signalling plans book we have of the project, his mate noted it was a weighty tome indeed!!!

all fun

 

Over the last month the first of the signals,pulley benches,points,fittings,signal pulleys,track circuiting,loc bases etcetera have strated to go in at Riverside, about two months work has been shaved down to two and a half weeks.

see Petes pic site for more details


Pictures of this weeks work on the signals at Riverside have been added to the gallery, they may be seen here
http://photosbyp.fotopic.net/c1922332.html

For the full collection of pictures of the work by the S & T Dept please use the link below

S&T Dept picture gallery
http://photosbyp.fotopic.net/

 

The opening into Matlock platform 2 (old down platform) is scheduled for 2,3 and 4 July, it's been a long slog and there's lots still to do but congratulations to all those making it happen.

http://www.peakrail.co.uk/MatlockStationFestivalReopening.html

Dave

 

Fingers crossed that all the "necessary official approvals" are received

Good luck

 

Pete,John and myself spent today fitting out the trap point between NR and ourselves out with the facing point lock,insulated rods and everything else thats needed,so Rob can crane the whole assembly straight in the ground, the ballast has started to go down on the connection bed,more to be done this week too.

Mr Briddon senior and younger have been busy working on the class 14,HST and the class 50 lads too working on their locos,the turnatble fences were being recreosoted and tidied up,the Lmsca were also busy up in their shed and mr Hinson was working way on the Delacher vans.

Apart from that we also continued on the cable works John started last weekend.

 

hi

any idea when the track in the platform is to be relayed? Network rail are doing that arnt they?

and platform restoration etc

is it still phase 1 at the moment?

many thanks

Mike

 

track in the platform should be going down soon,contractors i believe,which makes sense being as youre dealing with a large national company upon whose land youre working upon,plus they can get on with it without the hinderances of much of the paperwork.

from the early discussions volunteers were always allowed a part in the rebuilding works,but that is a matter for the board/NR,etcetera to work out to what end they actually get involved in which aspects of the works,so best left to the management to make an official announcement upon that rather than gossip or rumourmill .

the ballast bed on the connection is down,putting in the traps we built up last week and track panels next upon our side

 

Dom, will NR have to alter the fixed distant as you come out of High Tor tunnel and will the single line token machine be moved or will there be no changes on NR.

Next question (i'm on a roll) will it be possible to have a through ticket to Rowsley something akin to what the EVR are doing with Stagecoach

Where will the access to the platform be, will it be via the "Sainsbury's footpath" or via the footbridge?

 

answer to q1; no,as their fixed distant is relative to the end of the platform stop board,which is the next control point beyond the distant,so the distant reflects the need to slow to a stop before you reach the platform end stop board,bit like rowsleys distant reflecting the end of the passenger running line board,if you extend the line beyond it still doesnt matter as youre stop point hasnt changed, the distant would only be moved if you either altered the gradient massively,altered the running speed or moved the authority stop board back or forward,or lost sighting massively.

answer q2,one for the board,plc there,many heritage lines do have through ticketing,possible very possbl in todays computer driven society.

answer q3, as far as im aware the end of sainsburys ramp,covering both disabled and able bodied access that way easily.

answer q4,milk with no sugar!!!AHA GOT YA!

 

Down Riverside the lads have got the track right in upto the fence,next job to connect and slew the two lines NRs and PRs, today with around 16 volunteers on site the rockface was tackled,and the drainage and general levelling sorted, on the signalling side,we buried the two single pulley wheels we built up last weekend,dug a hole for the third (double wheel)-later we built this up at Rowsley too for next time, we also fitted the trap detector,rodded it up,completed some wiring up at the derwent end and around the station,as well as removed some rods for welding and altering which ive just finished at home ,so we can now refit the extended fpl rods and detectors on the trap and headshunt points next time.

next weekends job,drop in the double wheel,refit the rods and then some work up at rowsley on the telephone cupboards and in the workshop,the point rodding will be next months starting job ,around the connection end followed by signalbox base.

thanks to all who helped the weekend especially,Rob,Pete,John,David,Elliot and Sam.


Pete is working on a new picture site since the fotopic site went down,itl take some time to get all the images back up though,Mr Graves has given permission for the work pics to be put up on net so when we can wel upload em to the forum.

some pics from the s and t website of the day on the link below.


http://dominic-beglin.magix.net/website/#4

 

TOTEMS

Want to help fund an iconic set of station furniture for Matlock station? Any family, individual or company would like to purchase a slice of heritage station for thousands of passengers to enjoy every year?

We need reproduction totems in stove enamel for Matlock station- can you help?

If we buy FOUR British Railways totems for Matlock at the same time, we can reduce the price to £219.58 each! This doesn't include VAT, but buying through the DWVRT means we can reclaim the VAT, which I shall pay for all four signs, to make up the actual price of £263.50 each.

We have the lamp posts, I've got the brackets to mount the totems on them, and I've even found some screws!

I've had one expression of interest, and I'll stump up for one myself. So, who's in?

Ben

 

would the company not pay it?

nice recent vid of peak rail. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k44A539aZDc

 

In common with all heritage railways, 'the company' have to be careful to spend money on the important things in relation to day to day running of the railway- there are other bodies on the railway to fund historic items such as totems. I'm aware that sometimes people wish to help, and prefer to sponsor a specific item rather than throw money into the black hole, so hence the above suggestion.

These are very much finishing items, the larger things already have or will be provided by the plc, DWVRT or private individuals etc.

I would hate to have missed out because we didn't ask!

 

Dont get me wrong it wasnt meant flippant, I would have assumed this would have been paid by the company as it's not a huge sum of money and also thought it would have been well sorted by now either by them or by one of the groups who pay.

Is it a case that the PLC are not too concerned what signs it has or how the station is restored and they leave it to the enthusiast groups who if they want it to be restored in a authentic way they have to pay?
just surprised me a little as there was nothing on the peak rail website or the DWVRT site.

also are the lamps and totems to be put back in the same positions as in this photo?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/loose_grip_99/420981765/

 

Please note I have changed the web address of my Flickr gallery to

http://www.flickr.com/photos/peakrailprogress/

I have updated my signature so the link will appear in it in place of the Fotopic link.

Pictures of this weekends work are now in the gallery.

Regards Pete ​

 

my reply above seems a bit out of order looking back on it, wasnt meant to be, just interested on how everything works.