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Pennine Explorer 22/05/21 60163 Tornado

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by Groks212, May 12, 2021.

  1. gricerdon

    gricerdon Well-Known Member

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    Dont know about fastest schedule but the 920 pm St Pancras was timed non stop Skipton to Carlisle with steam in 100 minutes. On 20th August 1966 45675 Hardy took 113:46 with two signal stops, max 70 at Ormside, steady 30 up the hill with 8 on. Took water at Garsdale. There were many better runs than this in 1965-67.
     
  2. peckett

    peckett Member

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    Just a bit to add, the DOWN Waverley which was booked for a Jubilee, was the only train over the S&C , in the late fifties, that ran to what they called XL limit ,300 tons, 9 coaches for a class 6. A problem was encountered when BR mk 1s came available, 9 of those were just over 300 tons. Drivers then could ask for assistance . The Thames -Clyde ,booked for a class 7 , a Royal Scot, ran to special limit times ,415 tones.
     
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  3. peckett

    peckett Member

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    Who told you that about 72miles? A ridiculous figure. Uphill down hill ,what type of engine. Why the odd two miles..In SLOA days Mr Ward the BR supremo for steam specials ruled no more than half a tank could be used without a refill. That was a lot better way of calculating .
     
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  4. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Do they allow the same figure regardless of whether you have a Castle with a 4000 gallon tender or a Merchant Navy with 6000 gallon? Would seem rather illogical if so (and would also go against the efforts certain Loco owners have undergone to increase water capacity so as to open up new pathing opportunities: that would make no sense if there was a single prescriptive limit regardless).

    And let’s not even start on the impact of load and terrain ...

    Tom
     
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  5. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

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    Tornado has managed London Kings Cross to York with an one water stop at Grantham.Grantham is 109 miles 38 chains from KC according to my Trackatlas.
     
  6. twr12

    twr12 Well-Known Member

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    A useful rule of thumb is 35 miles per 1000 gallons of water.
    This gives a safety margin in case of delays.

    Mr Ward’s edict of tender/tanks going no lower than half full, is as much to do with the speed that road tankers can pump water at water stops, as any safety concerns. There is no point being heroic and chancing high mileage between waterings, if your water stops take over an hour to pump in 5000 gallons, as opposed to a fraction of the time for 2000 gallons.
    Not forgetting the size of road tanker needed.
     
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  7. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    In reality, whilst 100 miles is fine for Tornado and some others it's really the nature of what you are doing for those miles. If it's non stop then the terrain is less important but if it's stop/start stuff then apart from ruining the fire you can waste water quite easily.
     
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  8. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    That figure was mentioned in early 2000 IIRC when 60800 Green Arrow ran short of water approaching Garsdale after being refused a stop at Hellifield for a refill; it was expected to run from Preston to Garsdale without problems but continual slipping on icy rails after the Christmas break did few favours to train running - or water consumption.
     
  9. peckett

    peckett Member

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    You said currently ,I hardly call currently 21 years ago.
     
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  10. gricerdon

    gricerdon Well-Known Member

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    105 and a bit miles but quite easy big non stop. On the Yeovil runs both drivers ran fairly easily uphill but let the loco, 35022 run fast downhill. The road beyond Basingstoke lends itself to that style. I also remember the Clan Line run up from Eastleigh (73.5 miles) in 2012 with 67 at Roundwood and many miles at 75 mph we were just outside even time to a signal stop after Clapham Junction even with a start restricted by adverse signals and a crawl up to the stop.Big Al may remember how much water left at Waterloo but it was a lot
     
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  11. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    The KX to Grantham, 105m+ was on the SD Coronation of 16th May 2009 when 60163 stood in at short notice for 60019. That was a non-stop run with 13 and reportedly there was still 2,000 gallons in the tender after a superb run that included a 6m 48s climb to Finsbury Park, a lot of 75 mph running and a 71 mph topping of Stoke Summit. Tornado does seem to have little trouble covering 100 miles without needing watering as long as it starts with a full boiler and close to a full tender of 6,200 gallons. The caution usually shown is as much to do with not knowing how soon a tanker could get to a location to water a locomotive should it become an unplanned necessity, particularly when running under the wires. Most drivers we've spoken to over the years used a minimum of 1500 gallons as their yardstick; but as was said above, if there's a chance to take on water, they did. They knew where all hydrants were on and close to stations and made use of them at unscheduled times if necessary. It's surprising how much water can be taken in 10 minutes from a good hydrant.
     
  12. peckett

    peckett Member

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    In Mr Wards days most water (not all )was taken at fixed locations eg Didcot (Marylebone later ) -Stratford /Tysley ,Banbury station water supply .. Carnforth -Sellafield ,the nucellar power station.. Cumbria Mountain express ,Appleby Milk Depot, and Garsdale. Welsh Marshes Express ,Shrewsbury to Newport ,Bulmer's Hereford.. York -Scarborough, the station water supply. York to York via Harrowgate ,York station.
     
  13. peckett

    peckett Member

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    When Oakley troughs MML ,just north of Bedford were being overhauld in the mid fifties ,all trains were booked to stop at Kettering for water ,72miles from St Pancras .One or two of the trains that were booked non stop in the timetable went straight through to Leicester, 99mikes.Not a easy road St Pancras to Leicester. 5xs /Jubilees were the norm..
     
  14. tonydavin

    tonydavin New Member

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    As I said in post #81, the boiler pressure was intentionally kept between 225-230 PSI which is 20/25 PSI below her maximum so I'd hardly call that pushing her. If they had really wanted to 'go for it' then Danny is more than capable of getting her up to and holding her at the Red Line (250PSI). Also, some of the coal nuggets were too big to fit through the firehole meaning that he had to be selective with the shovel.
     
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  15. gricerdon

    gricerdon Well-Known Member

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    Who were the crew on Tornado?
     
  16. 30567

    30567 Part of the furniture Friend

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    See post 29 on this thread from @Shep Woolley --- Mick Kelly and Danny Davin on the S and C section.
     
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  17. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    'Nuff said. :)
     
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