Preferred Mark 1 livery

I wouldn't say that the present NYMR management is that much less Mk 1b obsessed. The Thompson CL is not greatly loved and is out of traffic awaiting repairs that are slipping ever more forward in the future. What the NYMR management does like is the 64 seat opens, but even those are the subject of some moans. There are still plenty of people around calling for the scrapping of the "linear scrapyard" of "henhouses" awaiting their turn in the restoration queue - including the double-standarded Paul Hitch it would seem!

LNER coach restorers were particularly fortunate that the control trains survived as long as the did, if not we'd have been stuck with whatever departmentals hung on, although Gresleys, being of superior teak construction, probably survived better than the less refined vehicles of other companies!

 

It is normally possible to determine the difference between stuff "waiting its turn" and stuff that is "Waiting for Godot", who will never come. L.C.D.R. stock was not only made of teak but also extremely standardised so bits from one vehicle can be used readily to restore another. It has been described to me as a "kit of parts". Wooden vehicle made from mahogany tend to be less durable.

PH

 

Really? What would you say would be the cut off point - rotting wood, no interior, no underframe, body becomes a chicken hutch? Where did those IoWSR coaches come from again?

 

I have never understood the prejudice against Mk1's. They are 50-60 years old and heritage in their own right. If they are properly restored and cared for they are a positive experience for passengers - most of whom would have no idea of the difference between a Mk1 and a Gresley Teak.

 

Mostly holiday homes. Seven have been restored to service and an eighth is well advanced. The underframe for a ninth is being prepared. A tenth forms part of a display, complete with furnishings, to illustrate its holiday home use. Others are either stored under cover or have been arranged tidily outside. There is no linear scrapyard visible from the trains.

PH

 

Two non-corridor thirds, Nos 3755 & 3756, they were transferred along with IIRC his six other ex-GWR coaches and railcar 22 to Didcot by their owner.

 

There were certainly grouping-era carriages to be had in the in the 1970s and 1980s: the majority of the Bluebell's Maunsell's were preserved between 1973 and 1989. However, in many cases such carriages had been converted for departmental use and were stripped internally, so clearly for a fledgling line at the time, the choice between a Mark 1 that could be put into service straight away, or a grouping-era coach that could run but would need a completely re-constructed interior must have been a fairly obvious decision as to which was more viable.

Tom

 

Back to the liveries:

https://flic.kr/p/pk3LoM

This is why I like Blood and Custard, it's a bright livery even in dull conditions and in the sun it stands out well. It also seems to go nicely with whatever colour of engine up-front; black/blue/green/whatever.

 

Balderdash! The latecomers to the heritage railway party needed rolling stock that was ready to run there and then so Mk1s it was and a few Mk2s. We now have some wonderfully restored pre BR stuff but to get sufficient in traffic takes years and in the meantime services have to be run.

 

While I much prefer the pre-grouping and pre-nationalisation stock, Mk1s do have their place, and are a necessary evil for most railways. A fully restored Mk1 can be a nice coach if taken back to its original condition. Livery wise I'd prefer the liveries to be appropriate for the region the line is in, and if the line has more than one set, then each set should carry a different but appropriate livery. That said, the older liveries are really the only ones I want to see, ie blood and custard, Southern green, chocolate and cream and maroon, depending on the region.
Daniel

 

An intemperate comment. Had the C&W side received more attention at an earlier stage, enabling a wider range of coaching stock to be secured in time, then the whole heritage railway picture would be more interesting (and probably more authentic).

PH

 

Ah yes. Austerities hauling pre grouping built stock on your beloved IoWSR. Authenticity personified.

 

More yah boo stuff I see. The carriages are always authentic and the motive power very often is. A much better strike rate than just about every other standard gauge heritage line.

PH

 

There aren't too many lines for which a Mk.1 is non-authentic. Non-typical perhaps, but not non-authentic. The IoWSR is obviously an exception.
The SVR has a very non-authentic (for the line) rake of Gresley coaches; if it's authenticity you want then they should probably replace them with another Mk.1 set.

 

Oooh Spamcan81, you'll go straight to Hell for that one!

 

I'm increasingly interested in coaching stock as much as locos and travelling in something pre-Mk1 is a real treat but a good Mk1 is a fantastic coach. The 'Gold Standard' refurbs at the North Norfolk railway are smashing and bring back memories of trips when I was a kid (70s-80s). I think I'm a maroon man but I like blood and custard and blue and grey also

 

I understand fully why the IoWSR uses the Austerities and have no problem with it but you do leave yourself open to criticism when you hold the IoWSR as perfection personified. It will even more a case of "needs must" when the Ivatt(s) enter service.

 

It might also be noted that in some cases where preserved railways were able to acquire serviceable pre-nationalisation stock that hadn't been converted, they put them straight into service in the same way that mk1s were later. This is perhaps why many of the coaches on the Bluebell that were active in the 60's and early 70's have been awaiting restoration ever since. The standard has been set by the restoration of the Mets, and the continued TLC given to the Obo, but what it does say is that it is not sufficient to simply get a coach, tart it up and run it, without also thinking about long term storage, proper restoration, and continued care. That applies to mk1s as much as to the older stock. Mk1s may have been the easy (or even only) option for some railways, but the reality is that many are now needing a lot of hard work, effort and money to make them as good as they should be.

As a bit of a wander down memory lane, I have a soft spot for some mk1s - We regularly had un-refurbished samples of them running under the Trans-Pennine branding from Bangor to some place or other over the border. The 2+1 seating in 2nd class, acres of wooden veneer, and comfortably sprung seats with windows that lined up were vastly superior to the Mk2s and 3s I had to change onto at Chester/Crewe. A trip on the NYMR around the same time found me in a Blue/Grey mk1, with Formica and fluorescent light everywhere. It wasn't often that BR was more heritage then the heritage railways!

Steve B

 

Must admit to being quite surprised that Blood and Custard has taken such a decisive lead after initially trailing maroon. As someone who doesn't remember either livery when in service, I like both, but to me, maroon seems to compliment the various locomotive liveries seen in preservation, as well as being more practical in terms of being kept clean, not that that should figure in when you're deciding on your favourite I guess.

 

Glad to hear it. No-body is saying the IOWSR is perfect, certainly not I. No-where is perfect. However I do find the "sameyness" between the various lines a bit depressing. Once trains are under way there is precious little difference apart from the view from the windows (provided they can be seen out of; not always the case ). Steve B (post 38) has it about right.
PH