Preservation or Pastiche

Most lines aspire to provide stations in an authentic architectural style (although compromises are usually made to the interior for sales, refreshments and toilets). Some lines can't immediately afford the structures they aspire to, so they use portacabins as a short term measure, and sometimes they provide period-style "trimmings" to make them appear more like railway buildings. IMO this is a perfectly sensible use of Pastiche to enhance the look and feel of a station.

Saddletank conversion ... Tom has answered this one. Am I in favour? Indifferent in this case. Much as I like Austerities, there are an awful lot of them preserved. And presumably Douglas helps the Mid-Hants to make a profit.

 

One of the best photo charters I have ever attended involved the Coal Tank and a couple of suburban coaches on the KWVR. Some time was spent at stations with no one about apart from suitably attired staff and no evidence of 21st century life. At the end of the day getting back in the car and driving home it was like the Tardis had landed and catapulted us back into the real world. When a railway can achieve the effect of waking back in time like that then you know they have got it right.

 

The Z.B. and S.K.L.B. equipment is perfectly genuine narrow gauge equipment from the early 20th century. I get less exercised by origin than type. Hence my dislike of B.R. era buffet cars on what were branchlines.

PH

 

Oh i would love it if i could drive somewhere park the car, change the money to pounds shillings and pence, board a 1950's bus to a railway station authentically done in that timespan pay for an Edmonton card ticket, again in old money, board a train with again everything as it should be so you do get a genuine 1950's expperience, even down to the unhelpfull porter,

 

But doesn't that just show that what you think is important isn't necessarily important to everyone else? You can use the same educational arguments you do with other aspects, but are happy to ignore here.

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Interestingly, the train currently operating at the Bluebell (weekend and midweek) has six carriages, built by four different pre-grouping companies and displaying five different pre-grouping liveries; and is hauled by a locomotive originally built by yet another pre-grouping company. Of the six carriages, probably only one has a plausible routine connection with the line in pre-preservation days; though one of the others has been in regular operation (almost without break) on the railway for the best part of six decades.

Is that preservation or a pastiche of a branch line train?

I think what this thread shows is that preservationists all tend to have rivet-counting tendencies, but that "railway preservation" encompasses so many distinct fields that each of us seems to come to an accommodation with some infelicities, while railing against others. So some will cavil at flat bottomed rail while not batting an eyelid about a LNWR carriage working in Sussex; while others will insist on prototypical train formations but care not one jot about a large car park or a computerised ticketing system. Each to their own, but I don't think it is especially helpful to be too dogmatic and assume there is only one possible answer.

(Photo of said train here: http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pic2/wn/2017c/65_3ab_petere8284_15jul17h.jpg)

Tom

 

In answer to Pauls anti Buffet car stance, if i wanted a tea, or coffee, and i only had 5 minutes what should i do, Join the queue in the Buffet and miss thet train, or board the train, find a seat and get my drink from the on board buffet ? bearing in mind, if there was no on board way to get a drink i would most likily wait till i got to the end of the line and purchase a drink, maybe elsewhere, i would not be likily to visit the buffet on my return,

 

I see where you're coming from. I just think that Pastiche is the wrong term for what you're describing. The use of thermally printed tickets is just unauthentic (or is it inauthentic?). If they were printed on paper in the style of an Edmondson ticket then they would be Pastiche.

Personally I love those authentic touches like Edmondson tickets, but I guess Joe Public has other priorities. Each line has to make choices about how much authenticity it can afford. Most customers will not discern the difference between bullhead and flatbottom rail, so long as it has joints every 60 ft.

The reality is that we enthusiasts usually have the luxury of attending special events where our "needs" are catered for, whilst Joe Public is happy with the standard product.

 

Nothing wrong with LNWR coaches, you just need the Coal Tank back

 

I think you have answered your own question. If there is no buffet car you wait until you get to the end of the line. It's like everything, leave it too late and you get problems. The private car has made people forget about timetables.
Paul H

 

There is an answer to the flat bottom versus bullhead conundrum. Make enough money to get some bullhead rail rolled. No more coal scoffing motive power for you Moriarty!.

PH

 

What a wonderful vision that photo is! Rivet counters be damned but if that pic was in black and white or sepia perhaps, how many other similar historical photos of pregrouping trains have I seen with mismatched rakes? Lots! Black and white would certainly not do that spectacular engine and livery justice though....

As a general point on rivet counting tendencies - nothing wrong with it as long as it doesn't stop enjoyment of what is actually on offer. I would conservatively say, that in the UK, you could see more engines in steam in one week than I could in 10 years in my part of the world. If you live in the UK and are a railway fan then you are truely blessed.

 

Most RMBs offer a NAAFI like experience.

PH

 

Matters little. Had it been a "Golden Mountain Pullman" train (wrong gauge I know) then I would have had misgivings myself.

PH

 

I sympathise with the sentiment, but since early ventures by the old WHR, some form of on-board catering facilities have often been seen as a means of improving the "customer experience". Other on-board facilities, of necessity, follow on quite naturally from that. Perhaps bladders have atrophied over the past 60 years, or the undeniable expectation of instant gratification also extends to mundane bodily functions (though in the case of loaded nappies, IMHO, that's no bad thing!).

Unless a line brands itself "an authentic (insert decade) experience", with funding entirely predecated on that, common sense dictates that optimal operations are unlikely to match best historical accuracy. As long as historic scenes, and trains, can be passably recreated on lines with such an ethos, is that really so objectionable?

The point that heritage lines represent an escape from the grind of constant maximum efficiency, a few posts ago, is well made, but for whose benefit is the illusion of bygone times being created? The passengers?.... certainly. The volunteer staff?.... partially. The line's Financial Director?.... now we are heading into grey territory. The line or trust's Bank Manager, aging prematurely each time head office looks at the overdraft ledger?.... now the cold winds of the real world are being felt. Bottom line... the illusion being created may be wonderful, but remains no less an illusion for all that.

Everywhere, it's always all balancing act between historical accuracy and financial necessity.

 

I understand the imperatives - they apply to any business. I also accept that there are compromises of era or consistency that can be achieved while remaining true to what is being preserved - I've yet to visit the Epping & Ongar, but wouldn't wish to freeze it as at my last trip on it as a Tube line.

My question is about the tipping point, and when you leave "authenticity" behind and drop into something else.


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It is the juxtaposition between "authentic" uniforms and station dressing that makes me wonder about "pastiche", rather than a problem with thermal tickets. Ditto bullhead in "public" areas but fb elsewhere.

I also acknowledge that authenticity can be tricky. At Steam on the Met a while ago, one of the locos (9466?) had what looked like a modern paint or powder coat on the steam pipes. For some reason - and I don't consider myself a rivet counter - this jarred with me as looking "wrong", though I'm sure it was of no historical importance whatsoever.


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