If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Project Wareham

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by David R, Jul 31, 2015.

  1. 80104

    80104 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2020
    Messages:
    679
    Likes Received:
    451
    Location:
    a small town in germany
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Yes I am sure that was the date of the official commissioning.

    I think the ORR? had to certify the token machines? which had been installed at Wareham for trains using the branchline to use.
     
  2. Andy Moody

    Andy Moody Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2007
    Messages:
    496
    Likes Received:
    337
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    71B ex 71A
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Yes, It was all part of the Poole to Wool re signalling scheme commissioned over that weekend.
     
  3. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Messages:
    6,078
    Likes Received:
    4,892
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Swanage
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Interesting that there are a number posts on the wnxx Swanage Diesel Gala thread and not one mentions anything about Wareham. Lots want trains to run to Frome Bridge however.
     
  4. DcB

    DcB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,339
    Likes Received:
    421
    Location:
    Surrey
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Seems the 2018 Gala with trains from Wareham was a success, if advertised will bring in people who normally don't get to the gala (like me) from the mainline.
    https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2018/0...ge-railway-diesel-gala-and-beer-festival.html
    The wnxx forum is a closed forum (I have not joined it) and the posts might be by people who might drive to the gala?.
    On Facebook there is only 2 posts wanting the gala trains to run to Frome Bridge and several asking for the Wareham DMU service to run.
    Perhaps there could be a compromise timetable, if everything is ready for the Wareham DMU service to start in May, where some trains go to Wareham and link with SWR, and some trains go to Frome bridge?.
     
  5. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,172
    Likes Received:
    11,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Might there be any "high days" potential for SWT to run two services direct into Swanage, in the morning, gricers in, shoppers (to Bournemouth and / or Soton) out, reversing the flow with an afternoon service?

    If there are days when either or both locations on 'the big railway' has some sort of event, such as a farmers' market, parade etc. it could be worth a look.
     
  6. 80104

    80104 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2020
    Messages:
    679
    Likes Received:
    451
    Location:
    a small town in germany
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    It is a nice idea but I doubt the demand is there. For many who come to Swanage from Bmth for the day (particularly those of a certain age) the Purbeck Breezer bus is the choice of transport as the service is direct, runs every 30 mins in the peak season, has spectacular views, and the end to end journey time is less than the train would be changing at Wareham. The ENCTS passes are accepted..

    If SRC or a.n. other were able to offer an excursion say using a Bulleid Pacific or something similar then that would be a very different proposition in terms of appeal but it is a huge ask operationally for reasons too numerous to list here.
     
  7. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,172
    Likes Received:
    11,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Indeed, but .... mainline certification. :(
     
  8. Andy Moody

    Andy Moody Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2007
    Messages:
    496
    Likes Received:
    337
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    71B ex 71A
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    When SWR took over the franchise from Stagecoach SWT in 2017, one of the first things they did was take the class 158's off of the Lymington Branch and replace them with 100% class 450,s.
    Therefore although there may be a handful of Bournemouth drivers that still have traction knowledge as I think 158/159's still go to Bomo depot for light overhauls (or at least they used to) Certainly Bournemouth guards would have lost their competency, which expires after 6 months of not working on them.
    The main object of the exercise, is for the class 117/121 to work into Wareham station with Swanage Railways train crews. NOT to Bournemouth, NOT to Weymouth
    or a grand tour of the British Isles! But as far as Wareham only.
     
  9. 80104

    80104 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2020
    Messages:
    679
    Likes Received:
    451
    Location:
    a small town in germany
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I dont think that operating the 117/121 beyond Wareham was being postulated. I think someone has mentioned that the 117/121 may not be derogated to work beyond Wareham in any case.
     
  10. DcB

    DcB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,339
    Likes Received:
    421
    Location:
    Surrey
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    The trust website says 31806 then
    "31874 built in 1925, and then 'U' class No. 31625, built in 1929, to fully operational condition.
    All engines will be overhauled to mainline standards to enable them to operate to and from Wareham and beyond in future"
    So 31806, 5 of the MK1 carriages which are mainline certified, plus 33012 could be used top and tail, if there is is a way of looking the doors and updating toilets to current standards.
     
  11. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Messages:
    6,078
    Likes Received:
    4,892
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Swanage
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    You come back to the point @80104 made that is there the demand? For some years the DCE offered an option of Bournemouth to Weymouth and back, 3 hours in Weymouth (and originally a different steam loco each way, before there were insufficient and it was diesel back). Run during the peak summer holiday period yet rarely more than about 10 or 20 people travelled.
    Forgetting the myriad of operational issues, which lead to a myriad of costs, what is the value proposition for the Swanage Railway? They would be undermining the regular service offering (£16 return trip currently I think), so what would Bournemouth be, operated presumably by a mainline TOC (WCRC?) £50 or £60 return even using Swanage locos (2) and stock?
    Where are all these people going to come from, why is it better for someone on holiday in Bournemouth (non enthusiast) to pay that much more money rather than a bus ride to Swanage and a trip on the SR? I do not see it, tell me what I am missing.
    Remember to Joe Public unless it is FS or Tornado they are all just steam engines.
     
    Paul42 and Woof Mk2 like this.
  12. DcB

    DcB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,339
    Likes Received:
    421
    Location:
    Surrey
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
  13. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,172
    Likes Received:
    11,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    What I was wondering didn't actually concern current aspirations for services to Wareham, but whether, under the specific conditions of some local event happening on the same day on the Swanage (of interest to gricerdom) and any of Poole, Christchurch, Bournemouth or Soton (of interest to Pubeck residents), potentially generating traffic flow in two directions, which to my mind is a separate issue from Wareham services.

    If (I'd put no stronger than that) such a market was deemed to exist, it would serve several purposes simultaneously, for both the Swanage and SWT. Likely there'd be some media interest as well.
     
  14. 80104

    80104 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2020
    Messages:
    679
    Likes Received:
    451
    Location:
    a small town in germany
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    As a "one off" or a very small number of operating days there could be reasonable demand but, putting aside revenue and direct operating costs for one moment, what would be the consequences if the loco failed on the mainline say at Parkstone Bank or Bournemouth?

    IMHO there are two very significant issues: (1) the risk:reward ratio - would you risk a very significant financial hit if something went wrong versus the potential profit (2) the costs of getting locos and carriages to mainline standard (and keeping them to that standard) for a relatively small number of mainline operating days per annum. The cost per mainline operating day could be very significant and when added to the direct operating costs wipe out any profit.

    SRC will have enough on its plate operating a Wareham service without undertaking ventures further afield.
     
    Morris_mad likes this.
  15. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Messages:
    6,078
    Likes Received:
    4,892
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Swanage
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
  16. 80104

    80104 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2020
    Messages:
    679
    Likes Received:
    451
    Location:
    a small town in germany
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    As I understand it big events in Swanage are Never scheduled for the same day as a big event in Poole or Bournemouth because it is from Poole and Bournemouth that the audience for the big event in Swanage is drawn.
     
  17. 80104

    80104 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2020
    Messages:
    679
    Likes Received:
    451
    Location:
    a small town in germany
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I think 31806 had to venture out on the mainline to justify the £75K grant SRC got to install the equipment for it to operate on the mainline in the first place.

    I think, but doubtless will be corrected, it has undertaken One trial run and then its share of the GB tour on the mainline to date.
     
  18. evilswans

    evilswans Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    162
    Location:
    Woking, Surrey
    It also ventured out top and tailing with the b1 last year :)
     
    80104 likes this.
  19. 5914

    5914 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2007
    Messages:
    175
    Likes Received:
    520
    Of the stations mentioned only Poole and Southampton would have any chance of being a reasonable proposition for someone from Swanage to want to use for accessing an event - I know from the days of not having a car that both Bournemouth and Christchurch stations are a long walk from the nearest parts of their respective town centres (whilst it always seemed like miles, I suspect that in both cases it is nearer a mile).

    Also, with a direct bus service to both Poole and Bournemouth with competitive timings and frequencies (and free to the more senior), I am not sure when there would be such events that would tempt the 9,000 or so residents of Swanage to put such a strain on existing public transport that additional trains from Swanage would be justified. Given that the economics of mainline tours over a longer distance require fairly good loadings on a train with a capacity for at about 500, it is an indication that it would require at least 5% of the population of Swanage to want to travel to the same event by the same means of transport and at the same time and at a premium price in order to look at being viable. I am not sure that in my lifetime I have known such an event take place in Poole or Bournemouth.

    Unlike the desire to provide alternatives to avoid the summer congestion of inflowing traffic, it strikes me that this is a train looking for a market, rather than a local transport problem to which the train might be a viable solution.
     
    Jamessquared likes this.
  20. Andy Moody

    Andy Moody Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2007
    Messages:
    496
    Likes Received:
    337
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    71B ex 71A
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I think this has been discussed before. NON of the Swanage Railway MK1 coaches are passed to convey passengers over Network Rail track.
    As well as central door locking which would require a generator to create power, A full overhaul of each coach, Toilet retention tanks and facilities for emptying same would have to be provided.
    Do you seriously think that the cost would be justifiable to run over just a mile and a half of Network Rail from Worgret to Wareham?
    Of course if there is anyone on here with a spare £1/2 million to spend, then good luck.
    I think you will have to make do with top and tail as far as Frome river bridge.
    Yes 31625 has been out on the main line in a previous life as has 30053. and the boiler from 31874 is currently on 31806 but every time a steam loco ventures onto
    NR track it has to be crewed by West Coast Railway personnel.
     

Share This Page