If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Project Wareham

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by David R, Jul 31, 2015.

  1. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    12,999
    Likes Received:
    8,889
    Occupation:
    Nosy aren’t you?
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    And all those houses that they built.
     
  2. LC2

    LC2 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2012
    Messages:
    814
    Likes Received:
    949
    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    70B
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Well, you do have the U-Boat with it's penchant for starting lineside fires ;)
     
  3. oliversbest

    oliversbest Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    797
    Likes Received:
    119
    Soaring price of diesel puts emphasis on electric vehicles say oil industry house organ. Those Vivarail units are looking better every day!
     
  4. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    12,999
    Likes Received:
    8,889
    Occupation:
    Nosy aren’t you?
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    What is it you actually want? You do confuse me somewhat.
    Do you want to see a heritage operation on the Swanage branch with those M7 tanks you remember fondly about, or do you want to see no steam service and viva rail units and the line back under network rail ownership?
    Make your mind up what you want.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2022
  5. oliversbest

    oliversbest Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    797
    Likes Received:
    119
    The article appears under the "Rail News Now" .. battery electric certainly transformed G gauge so on a full size scale it might do the same. Mr Shooter obviously thinks so.
     
  6. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    4,745
    Likes Received:
    2,910
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I think he could be right - switch the SR from being heritage to community rail and the line would certainly be transformed - from a thriving railway back to a little-used backwater under threat of closure!
     
  7. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    21,585
    Likes Received:
    17,623
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    And, as has repeatedly been pointed out, the track record of Mr Shooter's reconditioned trains is at best poor. VivaRail have produced three "fleets" for production use. The diesel ones for Bedford - Bletchley are so persistently unreliable that they are no longer being measured by Modern Railways. The all electric ones on the Isle of Wight were months overdue before they worked. And the hybrid ones for Bidston-Wrexham still don't have a date for production use, having proved themselves more flammable than a Modernisation Plan Type 1 diesel. The battery electric one didn't work at COP26, and is still being projected for use "this year" on the Greenford branch.

    With a track record like that, the only way I'd offer money for them would be if I owned a scrapyard.
     
    Shaggy, Matt37401 and Gladiator 5076 like this.
  8. buzby2

    buzby2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,468
    Likes Received:
    434
    Location:
    Swanage
    You can forget any possibility of Class 484 (Isle of Wight) or similar units operating/trialling on Heritage Railways as they are powered by the third rail. I believe UK Light Railway Orders specifically forbid any electrification (third rail or OHLE) of tracks that they relate to.
    I agree that the other Viva Rail fleets appear to have a less than impressive reliability record especially for vehicles so recently refurbished.
    The DfT now (effectively) controls what UK passenger train operating companies can and can't do or even say.
    They seem to want (much) reduced expenditure whilst maximising income. Subsidies are required to be reduced by Whitehall's ' Treasury mandarins' it appears.
    With NUR members voting recently for possible strike action we live in uncertain times for the UK rail network.
     
    35B likes this.
  9. buzby2

    buzby2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,468
    Likes Received:
    434
    Location:
    Swanage
    A few - but each one would not take an HGV load. Incidentally, on a practical level, where would they be loaded and unloaded?
    I believe none of the many lorries using the A351 come from rail connected distribution centres to serve retail outlets on the Isle of Purbeck.
    No PLVs in the UK are currently certified for main line running so getting one would be costly, time consuming and not worth the effort.
    A doom laden post by some - but factual to the best of my knowledge!
     
  10. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    21,585
    Likes Received:
    17,623
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    On points of detail, I believe your descriptions are slightly off - it's ORR who have a policy against extending 3rd rail, while Light Railway Orders are no longer the key legislation for operating railways - so attempts at electrification would sit outside that framework. It's also RMT rather than NUR who are threatening strike action.
     
  11. buzby2

    buzby2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,468
    Likes Received:
    434
    Location:
    Swanage
    Apologies for the inaccuracies you've corrected.
    The Transport & Works Act "Swanage Railway Order 2014" https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/1604/made has various pertinent points:
    Operation of railway
    5.— (2) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the motive power to be used on the railway is to be steam, diesel-electric, diesel, internal combustion, electric-battery or such other motive power as the Office of Rail Regulation may in writing approve.
    (3) Nothing in this Order authorises the use of electrical power as motive power on the railway unless such power is obtained from storage batteries or from a source of generation entirely contained in, and carried along with, the engines and carriages.

    That appears to eliminate "electrification" possibilities. Also, this Transport & Works Order only relates to:
    "A portion (4708 metres in length) of the railway authorised by the Swanage Railway Act 1881(10) in the County of Dorset, District of Purbeck, commencing in the parish of Arne at a point 587 metres from the junction (Worgret Junction) with the Poole to Weymouth line of Network Rail and terminating in the parish of Corfe Castle (Norden) at a junction with the railway authorised by the Swanage Light Railway (Extension) Order 1993, 527 metres west of the bridge carrying the A351 road between Corfe Castle and Stoborough over the said railway, together with all the lands relating to the said railway and lying between the points of commencement and termination."
    The rest of the heritage railway to Swanage is still covered/restricted by the Light Railway Order legislation. I do not recall any succeeding over-arching legislation which eliminates existing LRO requirements/restrictions so the dislike of ORR endorsing further third rail electrification appears to be of no concern to most (all?) heritage railways I would have thought.
     
  12. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    21,585
    Likes Received:
    17,623
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    ORR policy is getting in the way of useful infill schemes for Network Rail, so I suspect Swanage or any other preserved railway is well down the pecking order!

    However, the wording of that order reads only as though it denies the ability to electrify on the basis of the order, rather than outright barring it. Should anyone be brave (other terms also available!) to seek to do so, I’m sure the application process would give plenty to consider from the sidelines.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  13. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    4,745
    Likes Received:
    2,910
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    There you go again with your negative waves! Build it and they will come (There, saved the troll the trouble!)
     
  14. oliversbest

    oliversbest Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    797
    Likes Received:
    119
    So many molehills. How has Germany introduced a 9 euro "travel anywhere" package for the next three months.? Yes that excludes IC but includes buses. suburban and subway systems. Meanwhile any potential visitor to the UK who is not driving is at the mercy of the Rail Unions. Re the reliability of the Vivarail Units. At least the man is trying. Enough to have two units shipped to the USA. That is quite an achievement! Does the SR have any figures on the reliability of its DMUs. Shouldn't think so due to the very small number of operational trips. The world does not end at Norden Gates,but as the pioneers envisaged it opens up The Purbecks to a whole new connection . The molehill demolition team is arriving soon!
     
  15. Brockenman

    Brockenman New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    65
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Poole
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Just to correct you there is no such place as The Purbecks,this beautiful part of England is known as Purbeck or the Isle of Purbeck.As for Norden there are no gates there,there are barriers which protect road traffic if a train is going to pass over the road.As for the 9euro promotion in Germany this is causing many problems,but more importantly it has nothing to do with Project Wareham.
     
    ghost, 35B, Paul42 and 1 other person like this.
  16. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    21,585
    Likes Received:
    17,623
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Germany is a different country, with different government policies. Swanage is in a safe Tory seat, meaning that it is at most unlikely to lead to a change in government policy. I respect them for living within policy constraints, rather than dreaming about what they could do in a different world. After all, if there’s no soil, there can’t be molehills.

    As for VivaRail, don’t forget they’re bankrolled from the US (I think the bloke’s surname is Posner) so it’s less of an achievement than it appears to get a unit over there for marketing purposes.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  17. DcB

    DcB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,119
    Likes Received:
    345
    Location:
    Surrey
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    But like Germany there is a debate.
    https://www.railfuture.org.uk/article1889-Expected-Ticket-Office-Closures
    "So, went to the Accelerate: Rail 2022 conference last week, which got me musing about the expected rail ticket office closures (see, eg, the BBC).

    GBR speakers at the Conference emphasised the importance of getting the 50% of the UK population that never travels by train to start using the railway and also about how it needed to be an inclusive railway. And I thought to myself “Ticket Office closures”, “Left Hand” & “Right Hand” – “are they talking to one another?” – “quite possibly not…”."

    There is both a move to reduce costs and rail ticket prices (hense ticket office closures as people book online) and getting people to use trains (and buses), rather than cars, by discounted tickets and giving rail users good care by staff (not all can book online), so is relevant to the future of Project Wareham where GBR (when launched, NR now), SWR and SR (with the heratige DMUs) will work together to promote more lesuire train use in 2023 (and beyond).
     
    oliversbest likes this.
  18. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    4,745
    Likes Received:
    2,910
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    We're getting way off topic here, but if we're talking about lft and right hands talking to one another, shouldn't there be a third hand involved, one that is responsible for providing the capacity for all the extra passengers that they hope to attract? For years it has seemingly been the policy to reduce the demand to suit the capacity available by increasing fares.
     
  19. 80104

    80104 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2020
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    241
    Location:
    a small town in germany
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I believe that "Norden Gates" is the name that SRT SRC have bestowed upon the lever frame and associated mechanism (contained in a "hut") which controls the level crossing at Norden.
     
  20. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    4,745
    Likes Received:
    2,910
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    .... and isn't DB involved with aa number of our franchise companies?
     

Share This Page