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Replica builds for heritage lines.

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 50044 Exeter, Apr 25, 2016.

  1. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    I really want to build that Sturrock 2-4-0 (though I must point out, it's a Sturrock locomotive that was rebuilt with a Stirling boiler).

    Whilst on the Golden Arrow today (doing a day's shift for the Bluebell on those trains which apparently are over-engined) I thought about the other locomotives we have - and the rolling stock.

    We still have the GNR saloon on the line. With a couple of additional Gresley coaches or potentially a few GNR new builds coaches of 4 and 6 wheel coaches (like the other pre grouping ones we already have), we could have a pretty epic fully GNR train for the Bluebell. Could be used for all manner of things, including filming (and we all know how attractive the apple green engines look on camera!)

    The GNR 2-4-0 would be something different and add to the USP of the line - which is that we have a lot of pre-grouping steam locomotives. We can recreate a lot of the South - but nothing north of the thames particularly - despite having some amazing rolling stock from the GNR and LNWR.

    Just a flight of fancy of course - but there is a spare tender lying around the NRM. Maybe a long term loan to a group willing to build a steam locomotive to couple to it...
     
  2. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    So working from a website here:

    GNR 2-4-0 types

    [​IMG]

    The Sturrock 2-4-0 as built, and as rebuilt below:

    [​IMG]

    No. 259 with large Stirling boiler, fitted 2/1896

    I really, really like the look of this one...
     
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  3. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Part of the furniture Friend

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    Now, I was going to say that the 2-4-0 looked more Stirling than Sturrock, primarily because of the cab; Mister Sturrock seemed to give enginemen not a second thought, whilst Stirling at least made a token gesture! Plus of course there's the signature Stirling dome on the boiler.
     
  4. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    Couldn't have put it better myself. Except the pedant in me would like to point out that a Manor is class 5, not 4 :p
     
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  5. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Nice thought Simon, though I suspect if you want to see a 2-4-0 on the Bluebell, you need to get behind the Craven one!

    Actually, there is a more serious point, which is - lovely as they are - the LNWR and GNR carriages at the Bluebell date from a time when collecting policy was more eclectic (the LNWR carriage in particular was a very early arrival). They are lovely, and both are operationally very useful, but ultimately not even the largest railways can do everything, so it is better to concentrate on doing a smaller range of things well rather than spreading too thin. Which is to say - a GNR 2-4-0 would look splendid were someone to build one, even better if appropriate carriages could also be restored, but that someone should probably be a railway north of the Thames!

    Tom
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017
  6. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    You must remember Tom - I am LNER and LNER constituent biased :)

    You're quite right in what you say - but still, I dream...;)
     
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  7. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Don't worry, we can cure you ...

    Tom
     
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  8. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Part of the furniture Friend

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    Of course, given Archibald Sturrock lived in Peterborough for some years, it should live on the Nene Valley... ;)
     
  9. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Part of the furniture

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    What about putting Thundersley or Hardwicke back into running order

    Both a nice size for many heritage lines
     
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  10. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    According to the Western region who tended to upgrade GWR locos. The LMR considered it nearer a Cl.4, on a par with the 75XXX and 80XXX.
     
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  11. jtx

    jtx Well-Known Member Friend

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    I was going to say the same, because that's what I had always believed, however the group's own website mentions that the 78XX were classed by B.R. as 5MT. That's obviously why it went so well! :)
     
  12. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    But 75014, 75029, 76079, 76084, 80135 & 80136 have all 'gone well' when running on the NYMR, all with similar T.E. to a Black 5 or B1 yet only rated at Cl.4. The difference would come at the higher outputs required for higher speeds whee boiler capacity starts to count. A Manor has a slightly higher T.E. than all those mentioned so should go well up to 25 mph. It is again the higher speeds where it will start to tell.
     
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  13. Hermod

    Hermod Member

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    If NYMR were to opperate like Harzquerbahn with basicly one class,which option would You prefer?

    Five 2-6-2 class 82000 or six class 84000?
    Total weigth and price will be the same.

    Can wider GWR (over cylinders) locomotives be accepted?
     
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  14. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    But even on the HSB you still get appearances by the Mallets, 99 6001 and 99 6101 so there is some variety to make things more interesting.
     
  15. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    From what I've read it was BR Western region that identified a requirement for a Standard Class 4 4-6-0 simply because the 4MTT fuel and water range was seen as a bit limiting. The aim was to produce a lower axleload within L1 loading gauge for better route availability than the 78xx. Dimensionally only the boiler seems to be marginally smaller than the Manors but sufficient to earn the latter a higher classification?
     
  16. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    That seems to make sense. I remember reading somewhere that on the Southern Region, when fitted with the larger BR1 type tenders (which they needed there in view of the Southern's lack of Water Troughs) their route availability was no greater than the larger, more powerful Standard 5s, thus completely negating the advantage of the lower axle loading.
    On the subject of comparitive power class, the Manors do also have a higher tractive effort (27,340lbs vs 25,515lbs), which I think will also have contributed. I also think it's noteworthy that the tractive effort of the 4s is almost exactly the same as that of the Black 5s (which are 25,455lbs), but they were classed as lower power, presumably due to the smaller boiler dimensions. On that subject, the Manors also have a slightly higher tractive effort than the Halls (27,275lbs). Which I guess exposes the weakness in using tractive effort as a measure of power of a steam loco, it just doesn't tell the whole story
     
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  17. Hermod

    Hermod Member

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    The old Mallets could be omitted and passenger count unaffected if You ask me and I am very common.
    They are 250 hp engines and the 1-E-1 ones are 700.
    https://www.hsb-wr.de/mehr-erkunden/fahrzeuge/dampflokomotiven/
    http://www.78er.de/BAUREIHE/BR99/99_5906/a_995906-r-Gernrode-20070327-Holzborn.jpg
    https://farm1.static.flickr.com/330/31137039044_0f989a6f99_b.jpg
     
  18. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Neither would do the job. Too small.
     
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  19. pete2hogs

    pete2hogs Member

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    It's not a major issue, as regards heritage lines its one person's hobby horse.
     
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  20. Hermod

    Hermod Member

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    25000lbs tractive,60 tons adhesive,20 square feet grate and more than 500 gallon water sounds like a 2 cylinder GER Class A55 Decapod after weigth watching.
    What colour please?
     

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