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RS&H 'Ugly' 0-6-0STs

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by DisusedBranch, Dec 6, 2009.

  1. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    Thanks, that's very helpful. Interesting that, while the other Uglies that remained at Corby were all either sold or scrapped in 1969, 56 appears to have been stored for a further three years before its eventual sale to the KESR
     
  2. mickpop

    mickpop Part of the furniture

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    Eric Tonks 'The Ironstone Quarries of the Midlands' Volume 6. Publisher Booklaw Publications. One of 8 volumes- probably the most comprehensive history if any industry in the UK, a Bible for the industrial enthusiast.
     
  3. DisusedBranch

    DisusedBranch Active Member

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    What is the current status of those two locos? My memories are of them stored in the siding opposite the platform at Rolvenden for years with what (at the time) remained of the USA tank Wainwright (strictly speaking it was Wainsell, as it had earlier swapped boilers with its sister in order to get the latter back into service more quickly). ISTR the siding disappeared when the trackwork was changed, prior to the station being signalled.
     
  4. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    Both are undergoing lengthy restorations, although unfortunately due to shortage of volunteers it could well be a few years before either of them return. I know 1762 has had to have a new tank and smokebox manufactured. 2009 (and I don't understand the full details, so this may not be a fully detailed or completely accurate description of the problem) actually has frames which are either slightly bent or slightly out of alignment, or something like that. I believe the cylinder block is having to be removed from the frames in order to sort the issue. As is often the way with steam locos, unexpected issues have surfaced and increased the amount of time and money that needs to be spent in returning the loco to action
     
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  5. GCR567

    GCR567 New Member

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    Thanks ruddingtonrsh56. In the case of Manning Wardle 2009, the extent of damage to the frame, resulting from a very heavy shunt rear at some time during it industrial career, is only coming to light in stages. What was evident when overhaul stated was that the back 3ft or so of the frame was not original. New frame plates buffer beam and associated parts were fitted and a vertical weld made attaching the new sections of frame plate over which doublers are attached on both sides. However, the state of wear on the horn blocks together with loose fixing bolts have necessitated removal of all blocks and re facing and fitting liners. With the blocks trued up, the centres of the axles could be measured, this after straightening the right hand plate that was buckled in 1/2" at the crank axle causing the boxes to rub on the outsides of the crank webs. With the centres set up, it was possible to measure the respective alignments of left and right plates, revealing that the left plate is 40 thou forward of the right plate. With this discrepancy it was wise to check cylinder alignment, to see if it corresponded to the out of alignment of the frame plates. With a centre line wire through the right and cylinder, the alignment of the connecting rod is 3/8" out at the crank axle. so the frame in front of the leading axle is bent to the right. So the overhaul now includes re alignment of the frames in front of the leading axle. If you do the geometry, correcting the 40 thou error in plate alignment does not bring the connecting rod alignment back to true, so the block fixing bolts have been removed to enable each plate to be straightened and the block re aligned. As all of the engineering equipment necessary for this work is in place at Ruddington Locomotive Works, the work is proceeding, but there is always a lot of other tasks vying for the time of the engineering team, so new hands particularly with the right skills, are always welcome. There will be a lot of basic work as well, once the overhaul of 56 starts, so please follow news about the loco as it is published.
     
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  6. DisusedBranch

    DisusedBranch Active Member

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    Every enthusiast who has ever asked "What colour will it be painted?" or said "Someone should save this locomotive" should read that.
    PLEASE don't just publish it on @*&%ing Facebook! An awful lot of Facebook users seem to underestimate that there are quite a few people who don't like Facebook's attempts to take over society, don't trust how it uses the massive reserves of personal information it has and so don't use it.
     
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  7. GWR Man.

    GWR Man. Well-Known Member

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    I put out an request for No 56 movements in preservation on IRS yahoo group and Ken Scanes came up with this.



    New to Stewarts & Lloyds, Corby Ironstone Quarries, Northants.

    To Kent & East Sussex Railway, 8/1972.

    To North Woolwich Old Station Museum, London, by 5/1985.

    To GCR Ruddington, 28/1/1994.

    I hope this is of help.






    Ken
     
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  8. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    That is very definitely of help! Thank you so very much!
     
  9. GWR Man.

    GWR Man. Well-Known Member

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    Some more information for you from Martin Shill.


    RSH 7667 wasn't kept as a reserve engine. From memory, it was sold in mid-1969 and was intended for use on a scheme to reopen a branch line but in the meantime the owners were allowed to keep it in the shed at Pen Green and restore it there, which was done during 1969/70. I believe the branch line scheme fell through, and instead it moved to the KESR, but remained privately owned (as reported in the Railway World, Jan 1973).
    Hope that helps,
    Martin Shill
     
  10. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    Thanks, that's very interesting. Any idea which branch line that was? Also, I haven't come across the name Martin Shill before, is he a person where it would be possible and worth contacting him in the future for further information?
     
  11. GWR Man.

    GWR Man. Well-Known Member

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    From Collin Alliez on the IRS forum.

    CARD NO : 1274 RSHN 7667 Cl `56’ DATE OF LAST ENTRY : 14 MAR 2016
    Sold to John Bunch [£650] /69 OR /72 - /69 OR /72. Six months later resold to Peter Elms /69
    OR /72 - . Having a complete re-fit by 8/70,the owner is hoping to have her vacuum-fitted.
    Repainted light green with red frames & black wheels & fittings. The site was renamed BSC,Tubes
    Division Minerals on 29/3/70. Moved to Tenterden Rly Co Ltd(Kent & East Sussex
    Rly),Rolvenden,Kent (as 56) 9/72 – c18-20/12/84. At 53 tonnes was one of the heaviest locos on
    the line,& just exceeds the line’s axle loading,running with reduced fuel & water to save weight.
    Painted unlined d green red frames & rods by 5/73 in use.
    Entered traffic in lined Green as K&ESR No 26 56 on 26/9/76 – .
    No 26 5 ?? by 1/79 - /79; 26 5 /79 – 79/80; No 29 5 /80 - ; as 7086 ROLVENDEN by 1/82 – ; as
    No 27 7086 ROLVENDEN ??? – . Later stored at Rolvenden.
    North Woolwich Old Station Mus,Pier Rd,North Woolwich,Grt London (No 29) c18-20/12/84 –
    28/1/94.
    She was used during w/end c22/4/87.
    Visit 1988 Seen - In working Order in unlined Green as No 29
    Visit 1992 Seen - In Working Order as above (ST still shows K&ESR on Off side)
    Repainted in unlined Maroon 5/92.
    Sold to John Pownall - . Great Central Rly(Nottingham) Ltd,Nottingham Heritage Cen,Mereway,
    Ruddington,Notts 28/1/94 – 19/8/98.
    Visit 1994 Seen - In Unlined Maroon livery with (No) 2 on bufferbeam although it is still known
    as “No 56“.
    Entered traffic as 56 No 8 c6/94 – by /95.
    Repainted unlined black win 94/5 - . As 56 by /95 - .
    Visit 1998 Seen - In Working Order as above
    Due to MHR's THOMAS failing replaced it at Buckinghamshire Rly Cen,Quainton Rd Sta nr Aylesbury,
    Bucks [for 22-31 Aug?] 19/8 – 7/9/98. GCR(N) 7/9/98 -
    Wdn for Major O/haul 3/5/99 -
    Site renamed Nottingham Transport Heritage Centre 15/10/99.
    Re/painted unlined black. Wdn(for boiler o/haul) c21/5/2000 – 13/12/2008.
    Wdn (firebox problem) 7/2010 -
    HR mag called her `Ruddington’ by 1/2013.
    ++

    Interesting it was first sold to a Mr John Bunch so most likely the same man who owns the engines on the SR etc.
     
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  12. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    Wonderful, thank you very much. That is truly excellent! And very interesting that she was once the property of a Mr Bunch
     
  13. Fireline

    Fireline Active Member

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    I think that card has a duff bit of information on it! 7086 is an RSH, now called Norman. She remained numbered 29 until leaving the KESR in 1984. It was the only engine, of that sort of size, that faced south, and was left at the end of the "Sewage Works" siding for years. The other engines were in the loop at Rolvenden, when it was still opposite the platform.
     
  14. Hirn

    Hirn New Member

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    It sounds a right fiddly job and I would wonder about the plates springing back after straightening
    and not staying quite true.
    Have new frames been considered? They might be time/cost effective.
    Do approve and appreciate that you are tackling them seriously.
     
  15. Miff

    Miff Well-Known Member

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    56 was on the running line at North Woolwich and may have steamed (not on the day I went). Dolobran, Rhyl and others were in a yard - not in the museum site but just outside and visible from the road.
     
  16. clinker

    clinker New Member

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    Peter Elms was a friend of my late Father, I'm not aware of whether He is still with us or not, but he was very involved with North Woolwich, I believe that He also owned the Manning Wardles. and certainly the Peckett that was on site, which He spoke to Me about re-tubing in about 2002 but sold shortly afterwards. I believe that He once owned the (Avonside?) 0-6-0 st that is (was?) plinthed at Stratford. I owe Him a debt of grattitude in connection with an entirely different form of steam traction.
     
  17. GCR567

    GCR567 New Member

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    Hello Hirn, New frame plates have been briefly considered, but in part we are keen to preserve as much of the fabric of the original loco as we can. This includes the repairs and replacement to the back of the frame resulting from the rear end shunt at Corby and more particularly the upper part of the cab that shows the resulting repaired damage to the upper corners of the side openings. All part of the history of the engine and a story to tell visitors, where the evidence can be pointed out to them. The frame straightening utilises the same methods as were employed by the builders and their successors. Hunslet still used the same method of peening plates to effect small alignment corrections in the time that I worked there between 1977 and 1984. The straightening done so far on No 2009 has been very effective through the use of this method and the correction of the front of the frame requires only correcting a bend of around 1 degree in each of the plates just to the rear of the cylinder block. We are also building a new locomotive at Ruddington, so it will be possible to see both heavy repair and new build alongside each other when we bring the frame plates of No567 together with the stretchers, cylinder block, front buffer beam and trailing headstock.
     
  18. peckett

    peckett Member

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    No 24 (HE 2411 ) was never a S&L Minerals engine .It was a oil burner and always a Corby works engine.
     
  19. peckett

    peckett Member

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    Hope this photo' is of interest to you .Its was taken on a small group visit to Oakley quarries ,mainly to see the quarry machinery .A friend of mine was very interested in these, permission was very rarely given by S&L Minerals .
     

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  20. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Part of the furniture

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    Please REREAD my original posting that you quoted from :

    Probably because the Uglies were designed from the Austerity precursor HE2411 which my late friend Percy Horne drove in the S&L quarries prior to S&L Minerals determining the specification and placing the final order - the same design which was the precursor for the Ministry of Supply Austerities from which the LNER purchased a number which they classified J94.

    I never said that HE2411 was a Minerals Dept locomotive
    ; I was told by Percy Horne the Works Dept locomotive driver that he had taken the locomotive to the Minerals Dept then had been the driver during the test that was run by the Minerals Dept to identify the locomotive design that would be able to work the ironstone trains from Harringworth Quarry. I would also point out that at the time of the test it was a coal burner as oil firing wasn't fitted to the locomotive until the 1960s.

    I also refer you to Page 204 of Eric Tonks The Ironstone Quarries of the Midlands History, Operation and Railways Part VI The Corby Area where he states "When the Harringworth Line was was in course of construction, tests were made with the still standard Manning Wardle type locomotives and with No. 24 of the steel works stock: ....."

    I would also point out that HE2411 was a locomotive that I spent many hours with having watched / ridden on / driven it during my time living in Corby from 1956 - 1977 hence being aware of the difference between Works and Minerals stock.
     
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