RTC 2014

The difference, I suspect, is that the Scarborough Flyer would not even have been allowed a token steam loco on the front, as it goes through York Control's area.

 

And that's a fair comment but summer programs of trains are sold as, for example, A trip down memory lane awaits those who join this special train which recreates the days of seaside excursions run by British Railways in the 1950’s. The train will be hauled by a steam locomotive that will evoke the past and complete this nostalgic experience.
Experience is showing this to be a very optimistic statement and I think it should be made clear in the advertising, not buried in the T&Cs, that diesel assistance will be used to run the trains should Network Rail impose a fire-risk steam only ban. Then no-one could complain. You pays your money and takes your chance.

 

I'm sure certain people on here would still find something to complain about.

 

May be instead they just advertise it as a Railtour, and say "if conditions on the day are favourable we aim to run this tour with a steam locomotive".

Then there's no complaining about, route, locomotive and no shows.

 

Yes I agree

Case law has established that T&Cs have to be reasonable otherwise they can be ignored. Therefore the T&Cs must reflect the main thrust of the general advertising. The fact that diesels might be used should be front page and not hidden. Trouble is that this is likely to damage bookings which is why the tour companies don't do it. As it stands therefore I think any challenge has a very good chance of succeeding.

Personally I just don't bother booking anything in the summer months especially with one particular company who seem to have lost their way completely since various changes were made last year.

Don

 

The 'don't book in the summer' policy of Don and Bulleid Pacific is looking like the only rational solution for those who pay their money to witness a steam loco working hard. But it would be interesting to get an impression of the loadings this summer. The Fellsman has been full in standard for months. What are the loadings on the CME, SSE, Waverley,DCE etc looking like? I hope they hold up because the operators must depend on a successful summer season in the days out market to be able also to provide the tours in the other nine months. If as it looks we are moving progressively down the slippery slope from steam to steam plus diesel to a fair chance of diesel only then I wonder how much that is going to hit the main summer market.

 

There is a single piece of legislation which covers such matters, the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 which essentially replaced the old Trade Descriptions Act 1968.
One significant principle of the 2008 Regs is the concept of the "misleading omission". In essence the onus is on businesses to be clear on any aspects they know may significantly affect the decision to purchase. To not do so could amount to a criminal offence.
It could be contended that tour providers should make clear that in the event of certain circumstances a diesel may be used in part or full. This would allow those whose preference is for pure steam to decide accordingly whether to buy or not in the knowledge of the risk of not getting what is hoped for.
The toc makes provision in advance for diesel use so it is clearly a foreseeable eventuality. If there is an emphasis on the steam as a selling point perhaps there ought to be an equally clear statement of when this may not be possible.
Equally, clear policies on what happens in terms of refunds etc for failure to provide the contractually purchased product should be present at the time of booking.

 

Going to court is a last resort nobody wants. The principle of making clear any major points likely to influence the purchase is the important part.
All the tour operators have a local Trading Standards service that will normally provide free advice to any business wishing to ensure its terms are compliant. Again the onus is on any business to ensure it is trading legally though. If a complaint from a consumer was made to TS, via citizens advice helpline, it would be referred to the TS local to the business subject to the complaint. Most likely when a number of similar complaints was received TS would raise the matter with the business and offer appropriate guidance.
If any malpractice continued and the business had ignored the guidance their defence to any subsequent prosecution would be considerably weaker.
Any reputable business will wish to avoid court action whether civil or criminal nor should it ever be necessary in this context, where businesses have a duty to trade fairly.

 

Doesn't mean they're not disappointed though. A friend of mine and her family are booked on the A4 to York on August 2nd. None are enthusiasts but as it's the first steam hauled passenger train to call at Arlesey since 1959, they've booked as they want to be a bit of history. They're very much keeping their fingers crossed that it's a box free trip.

 

will this run as the Scarborough Flyer the day before has been cancelled

 

Because if a claimant is sufficiently obdurate terms will be agreed.

 

Skim read the first sixty of the Trip advisor comments. They do make for sobering reading. Maybe the general public are more lenient towards 'forces beyond our control' than to aspects of quality and certainty they would expect to be well within the control of the commissioning agent--feeding,watering,heating, departure time changes at last minute, poor customer responsiveness all come in for comment. The results are a bit like those for airlines where a mixture of five stars and one star are normal. People who thought it was OK don't bother writing in.

 

If it runs, it will be a box only trip, barring significant rainfall in the York area between now and then - and if the forecast is to be believed, there are only going to be occasional light showers.

 

Given the current absolute steam ban on ECML,and no substantial rain forecast,SD should have the decency to cancel this one now,but I think we all know they won't

 

I'd like to know how many of the non-complainers ever travel again. Thing about we dying breed of 'steam only on the mainline' enthusiasts is we spend loads of money on the tours and contribute to locomotive groups and will always come back for more despite the dismissal of our claims for refunds when the trains run with diesel assistance or just diesels. I wonder why sometimes as I tend to get treated like a one time traveller most of the time these days, despite the fact that I've spent over £4k on tours this year. It's off to the preserved railways for the rest of the summer and live with hope we don't get an Indian Summer in the autumn....