If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

RTC 2021

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by 61994, Jul 21, 2020.

  1. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    11,319
    Likes Received:
    11,143
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, best job I've ever had
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Scotsman wasn't an A3 when built. For complete authenticity it could only be in BR livery, even with a single chimney. It's fine as it is.
     
    Sheff, blink bonny, 5098 and 3 others like this.
  2. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2013
    Messages:
    2,512
    Likes Received:
    2,074
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Relaxingly retired
    Location:
    Deep in the country
    The Standard Tank was the Severn Valley's 80079 and it stalled twice on the branch close to MP19 on 2nd May 1998 and 17th October 1999. Not short of steam either time. Old Llandudno Jn driver told them at the Junction that the trains were overloaded and was actually waiting for us close to where we stalled.
     
  3. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    11,319
    Likes Received:
    11,143
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, best job I've ever had
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Planned for 60mph max doesn't mean that will be the maximum speed on the day, it depends on the locomotive on the train.
     
    Will RL likes this.
  4. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    17,549
    Likes Received:
    16,471
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    You may have missed it but we have been here many times before. As @Johnb says, the speed shown on RTT is merely part of the algorithm that is used together with the weight (that is usually well above the actual train weight) to in some way try and replicate in the model how long a steam loco takes to accelerate and decelerate. What this then does is get close to what the speed of progress really will be in the given path.

    It is by no means accurate but helps calculate whether the available space between existing services is sufficient for a steam hauled train to fit.

    There is more about this at: https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/rtt-and-things-you-may-not-know-or-realise.255631/
     
    Enterprise likes this.
  5. Enterprise

    Enterprise Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    4,741
    Likes Received:
    2,569
    Have I missed something, what sparked this discussion? I remember the Standard 4 incident well but I was not on the train. The Welsh Mountaineers I remember with most affection were those hauled by 61994. I was on a few of those.
     
    mike1522 likes this.
  6. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2010
    Messages:
    966
    Likes Received:
    505
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Early retirement! (Ex-Business Improvement, LU).
    Location:
    Betchworth, Surrey
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I understand the argument, but the two workings are very similar (pretty much the same timings and loads as far as I can see) and I would have expected RTT to show 75mph for both. No matter the load I can't recall a Bulleid ever being given a 60mph 'rating' on RTT.
     
  7. Romsey

    Romsey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2007
    Messages:
    2,853
    Likes Received:
    1,058
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired SPM
    Location:
    Close to Spike Island
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I agree. Comments like that were a treasonable offence a few years ago in some circles.
    Some years ago, I had a rough time one evening when doing a slide show for suggesting that building a replica would be better value and the original could be stuffed and mounted. I guess it would have been harder to fundraise for a "new" Flying Scotsman, as many contributions were because of its name, not any historical significance.

    Cheers, Neil

    PS £4 million sticks in my memory as well. That would equate to roughly two ten year overhauls for large main line locos and ten year overhauls for another two small to medium size locos for heritage railway use.
     
    MikeParkin65 likes this.
  8. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    17,549
    Likes Received:
    16,471
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Then with respect you've not been paying much attention to, for example, the RTT info when BIL was on the Dalesman.
     
  9. gricerdon

    gricerdon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2018
    Messages:
    1,010
    Likes Received:
    476
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Gricer and Grandad
    Location:
    Wallers Ash
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    But the S&C is limited to 60 mph so you might expect RTT to say that
     
  10. dublo6231

    dublo6231 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    495
    Likes Received:
    336
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Sat at home
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    We've been here before - the whole - lets bash Flying Scotsman for the money that was spent on it - has cropped up as many times as what colour should Loco X be painted!

    If you build a "new" A3 that locomotive immediately becomes "just another steam locomotive" to the general public.

    Immediately you have lost the USP that the locomotive is Flying Scotsman - it is this USP that draws the crowds of people across the entire country - we can bemoan trespass when it occurs but I don't know any other steam locomotive that garners the publics affection in the way that she does.
    It is this encouragement, to see one of the most famous steam locomotives of them all (in steam...) that generates the interest needed in future generations for the railway preservation movement to continue to grow.

    Still - I've digressed massively as this thread is supposed to be about RTC tours - of which I'm really looking forward to travelling behind Tornado over the South Devon banks on the first Royal Duchy tour of the year (all be it with a shorter steam section than originally envisaged).
    My last tour was the RTC Christmas White Rose also behind Tornado in December 2019- it's been too long!
     
  11. Will RL

    Will RL Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2017
    Messages:
    636
    Likes Received:
    938
    Location:
    Midlands
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    It depends what pool has been submitted to NR as part of the application. The times have been planned based on the loco requiring the slowest path. A black 5 would be a good shout here for example (as they are pathed for 60mph). 35018 is the main advertised loco, however if on short notice the merchant fails and a substitute is needed then that sub must come from the pool of locos that has been submitted and therefore the timings must still be able to suit the loco. Within this application all locos are gauged for the route etc. Timings have been noted to be similar and this is because this is the times that fit into the WTT.

    Hope this make sense.
     
    ykin01, 3ABescot, 26D_M and 1 other person like this.
  12. 3ABescot

    3ABescot Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2019
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    260
    Location:
    Herefordshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    It does indeed, Will. A very lucid explanation that helps a lot.
     
    Will RL likes this.
  13. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2013
    Messages:
    2,512
    Likes Received:
    2,074
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Relaxingly retired
    Location:
    Deep in the country
    Not a discussion; just clarifying something Davo raised in #198 on the thread.
     
    Enterprise likes this.
  14. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    5,986
    Likes Received:
    3,663
  15. D1002

    D1002 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2011
    Messages:
    6,408
    Likes Received:
    3,446
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Enfield
    A comprehensive description from RTC in response to a passenger on the train asking what caused the problem with Flying Scotsman last Saturday:

    White Rose 19th June.

    Following your trip with us on Saturday on the White Rose and having conducted a thorough investigation with all parties involved, yesterday, we are writing to update you as to the cause of the issues encountered on the day which led to the delay and eventual failure of Flying Scotsman on the outward journey to York.

    The locomotive had run and performed well up until Peterborough where a short delay was encountered due to an overhead wire issue at Huntingdon.

    This delay resulted in a challenge for the footplate crew as they were unable to regain sufficient steam to power the locomotive successfully. Losing the timed pathing position on the network and several stops to allow for passing service trains added to the ongoing complications. Despite many attempts and the hard work of the crew our slow progress on the East Coast Main Line was causing prolonged delays to the rail network so a decision was made after consultation with Network Rail that we were to terminate our journey with steam. Our operator, West Coast Railways, were fortunately able to negotiate a path on the network allowing for a diesel locomotive to come and take over hauling our train to York.

    We acknowledge that on the day there were reports and information given that the coal supplied was of poor quality which in turn was reported to be causing the lack of steam. Our discussions have identified that the coal supplied was sourced from an alternative provider to that previously used for a number of years, owing to the unavailability of UK coal, however we can confirm that the supply of coal is currently being used to power many UK based steam hauled charter operations including others promoted by ourselves. On the same day, Saturday, 60163 Tornado successfully steam hauled, using the same coal, from York to Edinburgh.

    After many discussions in the hope to be in a position to have a solid explanation to the events that occurred on Saturday it would appear that a catalogue of small operational issues, on this occasion, proved problematic for Flying Scotsman.

    Such events, particularly after a challenging time for our industry, impact many organisations and personnel involved on a personal level and we would like to thank all, particularly our volunteer stewards, for their determination and hard work on the day to overcome the issues to the best of their abilities.

    Every best effort was made by all on the day and the numerous messages of gratitude for the experience of travelling on Saturday already received are very much appreciated. We hope that this letter offers you some understanding of the complexity of the situation.

    Please accept our most sincere apologies for any disappointment you experienced due to the issues, which were outside of our control, and we hope that despite the issues that you still enjoyed your day.

    Kind regards

    The Railway Touring Company
     
    MikeParkin65 likes this.
  16. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2013
    Messages:
    2,512
    Likes Received:
    2,074
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Relaxingly retired
    Location:
    Deep in the country
    Interesting follow up is that according to Railway Herald, Steam Dreams' Flying Scotsman to Scotland tour due to run tomorrow is now to be diesel hauled throughout.
     
  17. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    17,549
    Likes Received:
    16,471
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Pleased to see the RTC taking time to contact its customers and clarify what actually caused the problems on Saturday. I've noticed that this is something the company now seems to try and do regularly. This includes what happens when you might need to contact them by phone. So well done RTC for being open. My guess is that the managing director is behind this approach.
     
    acorb, green five, andalfi1 and 2 others like this.
  18. Scrat

    Scrat New Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2015
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    30
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    railway worker
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I know enough thanks.
    Next door to you by the sound of it then!
     
  19. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    32,511
    Likes Received:
    16,741
    Occupation:
    Training moles
    Location:
    The back of beyond
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Yawn.jpg
     
    Haighie and RalphW like this.
  20. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    32,511
    Likes Received:
    16,741
    Occupation:
    Training moles
    Location:
    The back of beyond
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    It is good to see such openness but whilst the statement has seemingly ruled out the coal as the cause of the problems, it hasn't actually said what the "catalogue of small operational issues" were.
     

Share This Page