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RTC Dartmouth Express - April 19th

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by Big Al, Apr 11, 2014.

  1. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Just spotted that the ECS for this doesn't arrive at Guildford until 0820. So the journey is going to start over an hour later than the provisional times on the RTC site (that incidentally still promises Britannia or Oliver Cromwell, depending on which bit you read!). I just hope that this later start doesn't cause us to slip into the same timings as the SD trip and in common with that trip involve diesel haulage on the DSR.

    With all the pickups I can't see us getting from Guildford to Westbury in less than 2 hours so that brings us to Westbury at 1030/1045. Allow the usual age to change diesel for steam and conveniently we end up in the same path as the SD trip, leaving at 1130.

    Perhaps we will not leave for home until 1730 but that will get us back to Guildford quite late at around 2330 so I am beginning to feel that we may be in for a missed opportunity. The saving grace will of course be SNG and there again, maybe I am being too pessimistic........ or perhaps realistic.
     
  2. green five

    green five Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't find anything on Realtime yet for this trip. I was wondering if they would slip us into a similar path as the CE trip. If we have a late arrival back at Guildford that could be a problem for some with the next train services being on Sunday! I hope we get an hour at least at Kingswear :(

    Also just noticed that RTC must have added an extra carriage to the train as they now say they have more seats available after saying it was fully booked yesterday. I hope this does not mean they are overloading 60007 and she will require diesel assistance throughout?
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2014
  3. Paul42

    Paul42 Well-Known Member

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    I expect most people will drive to Guildford rather take the train.

    Not much to do at Kingswear ( apart from the Ship Inn), bettter to go to Dartmouth.Walk through the train as far front as you can get( before the train reaches Kingswear) to get to the head of the queue for the Passenger Ferry to Dartmouth or use the small car ferry( like some have done).

    As long as the load is not more than 13 should be ok. Torando has managed 14 over Whiteball and Brewton.
     
  4. green five

    green five Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the tip about Kingswear and the Ferry. Haven't been there for a long time, last visit was with 6024 on her 75th Birthday trip on 2nd July 2005. That was a cracking run. During the layover we went for an excellent walk out of Kingswear as I seem to recall there was a very long queue for the ferry to Dartmouth. We saw some seals swimming in the sea which was an added bonus.
     
  5. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Was told today that notwithstanding anything on RTT the RTC/WCR are still negotiating times to try and avoid a short layover and the complications on the DSR that SD suffered. So watch this space and wait until RTC confirms final times. A message here therefore to all readers about taking care not to assume too much about any RTT data until very close to the trip or not until posted by the operator. Something I have learned about such timings therefore.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2014
  6. david1984

    david1984 Well-Known Member

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    Should be fine on the Western Region with any load, only bank that would give trouble is Goodrington, but usual practice to have a banker from Paignton for A4's now.
     
  7. maureen

    maureen New Member

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    there are some timings on RTT for the outward journey but not the return it appears that SNG is now coming onto the train at Taunton instead of Westbury.
     
  8. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    I find that bit of information hard to believe and would prefer to wait until the RTC confirms timings with the tickets that have yet to come. Knocking 50 miles off the steam section as you imply (assuming that it's for one way only) is hardly something that they would choose to do without a good reason.
     
  9. free2grice

    free2grice Well-Known Member Friend

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    It's not looking good for steam between Westbury and Taunton on the outward leg. <BJ>

    5Z32 0545 Southall Wcr to Taunton. 19/04/2014
    Southall Wcr 0545
    Southall [STL] 0555 0601 GL
    Southall West Jn pass 0604 ML
    Reading [RDG] 8 0640 0642
    Newbury [NBY] pass 0703 3
    Bedwyn [BDW] pass 0720 3
    Westbury [WSB] 1 0810 0812
    Fairwood Jn pass 0817
    Castle Cary [CLC] 2 pass 0843
    Somerton Ground Frame pass 0854
    Taunton [TAU] 2 0925 0930
    Taunton Signal E483 0933 0938
    Taunton [TAU] 1 0943

    5Z34 2115 Westbury to Southall Wcr
    Westbury [WSB] 2 2115
    Theale Loop 2216 2241
    Reading [RDG] 8 pass 2250 UML
    Southall [STL] 2320 2323
    Southall Wcr 2333
     
  10. green five

    green five Well-Known Member

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    Going by what I have found on RTT this looks to be the case.

    Outward Railtour timings : http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U63266/2014/04/19/advanced

    Outward 60007 move from Southall to Taunton via Westbury: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U63268/2014/04/19/advanced

    Return 60007 move to Southall from Westbury: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U55023/2014/04/19/advanced

    Please remember what was said in the other thread:https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/rtt-and-things-you-may-not-know-or-realise.255631/
     
  11. david1984

    david1984 Well-Known Member

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    Worth remembering that a set of timings in RTT are not always the definitive and accepted ones and can be changed...
     
  12. spicer21

    spicer21 Member

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    Even taking that into account, we have to be realistic here, and recognise that this tour is not going to resemble what many hoped. Glad I travelled on SDs trip now.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
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  13. green five

    green five Well-Known Member

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  14. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Indeed it does. I have to say that 10 minutes to change a locomotive is something that was quite a generous allowance in 1964 but in 2014 there are 101 reasons why that is more difficult. But as you say, the RTC and WCR seem to have come up trumps over the Westbury matter and, as hinted, have also given everyone a decent time at destination. Brilliant.

    EDIT. Just been sent our tickets. Website is wrong. SNG does come on at Taunton, not Westbury, for the following reason given in the letter: "Due to the derailment at Westbury last week, there is not sufficient time between service trains to now change locomotives at Westbury on the outbound. Should we have insisted on this then we would have only had one hour available in Kingswear, in order to visit Dartmouth."

    I don't see what a derailment has to do with the times of trains but that's neither here nor there. Such a pity.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
  15. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Now we have the official times from the RTC I have looked at what is going on at Westbury on Saturday. Sorry to say it but this looks like a classic reminder of how far down the food chain steam charters sit in the mind of Network Rail. Here's a quick Q&A to understand why.
    • Q: If we are not now attaching SNG at Westbury, why do we have to sit there for 10 minutes until 1027?
      A: This is so that 1C76 (Pad-Ply) can call and pass us in the adjoining platform (2).
    • Q: Fair enough. So why can't we stay at platform 1 longer to change locos?
      A: That's because the platform is needed at 1036 for 2O86 (Glos-Wey)
    • Q: What's to stop 2O86 being routed through the same platform as the Plymouth train?
      A: The 2C12 Sprinter from Warminster terminates there at 1033 where it seems to block the platform until forming 2O05 to Salisbury at 1111.
    • Q: Why can't the Sprinter move off the platform after terminating so that the Weymouth train can get in and away alongside the charter?
      A: Good question.
    Well that's how I see it. Just for the sake of a slight variation to an empty train that would involve it being parked elsewhere for 15 minutes, we end up with SNG coming on at Taunton. Worse than this, if we had been allowed to put SNG on at Westbury and remain there till, say, 1040, then 55 minutes would still be time enough to get to Taunton and take water before leaving at around the original time and get to the Tiverton loop ahead of the Cross Country service to Paignton.

    OK. As a traveller I have a vested interest in finding a solution as I'm sure do WC and the RTC. Someone at NR reading this would doubtless know why none of this is possible as presumably it would involve changing the WTT and FGW might object (to an empty stock movement?). But the truth probably is that no-one at NR is all that bothered about looking for ways around the problem as they already have a solution that suits them but not anyone else.

    Of course, if this is what the organisers requested or are happy with for reasons not clear to the public then fair enough. But my inference from the sad tone of the RTC letter is that this was the 'take it or leave it' offer from NR. All a bit sad really but maybe there are still last minute requests that can be made. Come on NR. Do the maths.
     
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  16. green five

    green five Well-Known Member

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    Got the tickets through as well. Disappointing news about the outward run. It is a shame they couldn't have extended the steam section on the return run as 60007 is returning to Southall with her support coach along the same route as the rail-tour in a later path. Sounds like another frustrating encounter for RTC with NR...... Does make you wonder why the Railtour companies bother these days. :(
     
  17. jonathonag

    jonathonag Well-Known Member

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    Without knowing the ins and out of the area, or FGW's crew working patterns, it could be down to the fact that the diagram for that Sprinter means that the unit is stabled in the platform while crew members take their PNB's. For the movement you are implying to happen, is thus reducing the crew's break by however long it takes to shunt the unit out and then back in for the commencement of the following service.

    Is the unit also serviced by cleaners while at the station? Just because a Sprinter is sitting empty in a station, it does not always mean that it is not being used in some capacity. This could be from cleaners going through the set carrying out their job, to the on train catering staff unloading and loading trolley's. If any of these staff mentioned do not carry PTS, then the jobs can't be shifted alongside the unit into an empty siding.
     
  18. Steamage

    Steamage Well-Known Member

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    The RTC letter mentions the recent derailment. Might it also be that some points and/or sidings are locked out of use pending repairs, or occupied by damaged rolling stock, meaning there's one fewer gap to shuffle the tiles of this Chinese puzzle into? Although it's a shame to lose the climb to Brewham, at least you'll still get Whiteball (both ways), Torre and the climb through Bruton on the return. Remember to raise a glass the S&DJR as you pass through Cole.
     
  19. nigel1952

    nigel1952 New Member

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    The SNG trip on the 10th was a Thursday, while the train was in platform 1 at Westbury, there was nothing else on the arrival boards for about 10 minutes before or about 20 minutes after. That may not be the case on a Saturday. Also because of the length of the train SNG was attached forward of the departure signal, and had to be released ( safely ) by other means as the staff in the cab couldn't see them. If the train is one coach longer as in a previous post, this would acerbate this issue. I think the plan at one stage was to swap SNG in one of the sidings, but I guess they were worried about people dropping onto the track if they thought they could detrain. Maybe Taunton has longer or safer platforms.

    There were also a lot of spectators there ( Westbury ), myself and my uncle amongst them, and one of the senior rail staff present, although not required to marshall anyone, who were all well behaved, he did seem quite agitated. Unfortunately earlier in the day while SNG was being watered, some over enthusiastic enthusiasts had public announcements made while they went down the bank for what they thought was a better view
     
  20. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Well-Known Member Friend

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    It's rather sad that RTC now prioritises time at the destination over steam mileage. We're losing over 45 miles, 22% of the paid for steam miles, including Brewham Bank that was one of the real highlights with 60007 and 12 on last Thursday's train, though it looks like we've only got 11 on Saturday probably hoping to dispense with the box on the P&DSR. It's Easter Saturday and Dartmouth will be heaving. So what was the problem only having an hour or so there? Shame on you RTC. The Ship in Kingswear is there for beer though Colin did say he might not have Otter Head on!! SD's train ended up the best value for money after all.
     

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