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RTC Dartmouth Express - April 19th

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by Big Al, Apr 11, 2014.

  1. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Not really, steam cranks will keep coming back despite setbacks and farces, Bert and Ada on a day out (who we need to make the trips run) won't.

    An hour at a destination is just enough time to get fed and watered if you don't have to wait too long to be served, sod all time to look round the actual place which is the clincher for many daytrippers, I had a tour last year where circumstances dictated we only got an hour in Minehead, felt far too rushed to really enjoy the layover on what was otherwise a very good tour.
     
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  2. TorbayTrains

    TorbayTrains Member

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    You also have to think about the turn around time on the DSR. For SNG to be turned and serviced within a couple of hours and to work that around their service train is difficult. It not like the Torbay Express which has about 4 hours to do all that when it runs. The last thing anyone wants is for it to be late at any stage on the trip and delay other services on the national network. If that happens it will give steam charters a bad mark and may end up with less of these charters.
     
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  3. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

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    A one time the DSR were only interested in the Torbay Express ( after previously having trips from others). If the trips keep having short turn arounds they might not accept them in the future.
    There is also the time required to service the coaches including filling up the water tanks in all the coaches. I remember trips where there was no water left to flush the toilets on the return.
     
  4. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Ensuring that this trip runs so that there is a decent stopover and servicing time for SNG is exactly what the RTC should have done and they were right to hold out for this. Anyone who thinks differently just doesn't understand the needs of the majority of those on the train or the support crew. But the Westbury business is another matter.

    On the April 10th trip, the train only took an hour and three quarters between Westbury and Exeter including a 20 minute stop at Taunton. This time it is over two hours. Putting steam on at Westbury and tweaking the platform location of trains so that it is possible clearly went into the "too difficult/don't want to do it drawer" at NR. You win some and you lose some with NR. Last Saturday, on the CCE , NR was generous over pathing. This Saturday seems to be a different matter. (I guess it is all down to the ability and the will of the person doing the timings at MK.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2014
  5. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    On the NR issue: are all such issues made at Milton Keynes? Or is there any regional / local autonomy and flexibility?

    On the Westbury issue, and the reason a unit might sit in a platform for an extended period: I seem to recall from my days commuting via Westbury that sometimes FGW trains changed crews there. So it is possible that the incoming driver left the unit, and another driver took over later. (On at least one occassion I remember seeing drivers of Portsmouth - Cardiff and Cardiff - Portsmouth units swapping trains, though that may have been as a result of exceptional late runing on one of them, and trying to get a driver back to his home depot within his hours).

    Also, would an FGW driver passed to drive through Westbury on any of the platform roads also be deemed to have route knowledge to go into the sidings (with associated signalling)? That might be another reason why a move in and out of the sidings to free up a platform may not be possible? As I recall, the sidings at Westbury are almost entirely devoted to stone traffic, so there would be no normal operational reason why FGW crews would enter them. Indeed, with a lot of shunting going on, it might be seen as somewhat inconvenient to have a passenger train enter the sidings, even for a short period.

    Genuine questions, I don't know the answers!

    Tom
     
  6. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    There is bound to be a simple and rule book/knowledge/operational/safety reason why the apparently obvious to an outsider is simply not possible. Playing trains by working paths out through looking at RTT is nothing like the real thing and I, for one, don't kid myself that it's any different. Your thoughts are probably closer to reality. Let's face it. NR is only interesting in running trains safely and to time. If they spent as much time on pathing a single charter as some of us take dissecting what they've done after the event, then nothing would move on the network. On the MK point, I think everything starts from there but then local controllers can change things on the day.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2014
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  7. Enterprise

    Enterprise Part of the furniture

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    Network Rail claim:

    "Our work is shaped by four values.

    In order to deliver our vision of safe, reliable and efficient railway for Britain, we have identified four values that should govern the way that we work.

    ‘We are determined to improve the rail service for customers’ - Determination

    ‘We respect our environment, our communities and all the people we work with’ - Respect

    ‘We are all part of the same team and every contribution matters’ - Teamwork

    ‘We are passionate about what we do and take pride in a job well done’ - Pride"
     
  8. mike1522

    mike1522 Long Time Member Friend

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    If they are passionate it would be nice if grass growing on mainline trackage be tended to.
     
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  9. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    True, but management 'Missions Statements' like the above are just statements, reality takes a bit more effort and money.
     
  10. Enterprise

    Enterprise Part of the furniture

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    I don't disagree. However, if they are just statements and are not acted upon, they are useless.

    I believe they fail on all four as far as steam charter work is concerned.
     
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  11. Drysdale

    Drysdale Guest



    I can only assume that they are having a laugh!
     
  12. Drysdale

    Drysdale Guest


    And in general day to day running.
     
  13. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    So they failed when Braunton was struck down with injector problems recently???
    They failed when Scots Guardsman had a problem last weekend but was allowed to then run infront of a late running pendolino providing she kept out of it's way. Not quite sure who would have made the decision in the latter case but it was an inspired one.
     
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  14. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    The remarkable thing about Network Rail is that, on a good day, those on the ground controlling the live action often make really intelligent decisions especially when things are out of order. It simply hinges on whether they let the computer do the work or a (clever) human intervenes to make sense of the mess. But you do have to strike lucky!
     
  15. green five

    green five Resident of Nat Pres

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    I have been looking back through my photo albums to see when I last made a similar journey to this one: It was on 2nd July 2005.
    6024 hauled the 75th Anniversary Limited (her Birthday Special) from Paddington to Kingswear and back as far as Taunton. Here are the timings for that run:http://www.uksteam.info/tours/t05/t0702e.htm It's pretty much the same route after Reading.
    How things must have changed since then as even though the trip was steam hauled most of the day we still had a decent layover time at Kingswear (yes, the train started a little earlier with a 6.53 dep from Reading where I joined but not much earlier considering it was a slower schedule with steam limited to 75mph) and we got back at a reasonable hour (21.15 at Reading).
     
  16. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    It's always interesting to read the differing perspectives from contributors and in many ways I wouldn't argue that most travellers don't give a monkeys how many steam miles there are on trains and don't even seem to care when there are substantial differences between what was advertised and what was delivered. But a lot do and it's getting a real drag that timings are produced so late by NR and that T&Cs are so anti travellers that cancelling means losing a lot of money. It's an expensive hobby and perhaps NR would be good enough to explain why on earth with their so called multi million pound computer systems they can't produce timings weeks in advance, subject to local issues like the derailment at Westbury - and how it takes them so long to repair the track in Westbury. Typically I've not been getting replies from the Charter Team when I've asked for explanations.
     
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  17. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    The planning computer at NR can produce these timings weeks in advance, but it's then that the negotiations start with the tour and train operators in an effort to get these times to match up with what the tour company originally proposed.
    Since charter trains are a small percentage of NR planning, there is respectively less manpower allotted to attending to the fine tuning, hence it ends up with a compromise only agreed within say 2 weeks of the tour taking place.
     
  18. Enterprise

    Enterprise Part of the furniture

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    There are still some proper railwaymen left but not so many. Examples such as those you give seem to be exceptional.

    I have been a steam charter customer for many years and, despite the undoubted triumphs, in the last few years the tours that have met my criteria have become fewer. The most important issue for me, and it has been well discussed on NP, is the late confirmation of what a tour itinerary actually is. I am not prepared to pay out a few hundred pounds for a tour that starts earlier and ends later, has less time at the destination, and fewer steam miles than advertised.
     
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  19. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    I think you might have your rose tinted specs on there.
    2005. Taunton to Kingswear - 3 hours 5 min. 2014 - 2hr 25 min.
    2005 Layover - 2hr 45 min. 2014 -2 hr 35
    2005 Kingswear to Taunton - 2 hr 25 min. 2014 - 2 hr 27 min.

    Not clear what the point is that you are making over timings for the steam section and the layover time.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2014
  20. D1059

    D1059 Member

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    As SNG was travelling down the Berks and Hants so early I got up at stupid o'clock to shoot it near Crofton - had the sun been out it would have been a wonderful shot, but at least near freezing temperatures ensured a good exhaust and no wind meant a great reflection

    http://www.ipernity.com/doc/d1059.empire/32096149/sizes/o

    Hope the tour goes OK for you all
     
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