RTC's Dartmouth Express 9/06/18

No a class 5 on 10 is not overloaded. Look at recent runs with 45212. Just circumstances today and its is quite clear from YouTube evidence so far that the DL did not get involved until after Exeter. My own video clip shows black smoke from the DL for the first time as it approached St Thomas. Yes quicker than Clan Line last week and also quicker than Clan Line in the rain 3rd September. Were you on it 1020 Shireman ? Are you qualified to comment? What I am saying is 45212 was worked very hard indeed and I am quite sure the DL did not get involved before Taunton and indeed not after that at least until Wellington. Maybe it did then but I could feel nothing in the train and it certainly wasn't obvious. The speeds are as usual 100% accurate and when I work out the EDBH figs I will know whether or not they are credible for a class 5 on that load with a dead 47. I will post my results.

 

...... certainly going v well indeed at Dawlish Warren tonight !
Thanks for the whistle !!
Diesel doing nowt!!
Back again tomorrow!!
Ray

 

45212 departing BTM this morning. Had to climb up on the overbridge for this one, as the choice of platform rather inhibited options for departing shots!

 

Not my video, illustrates the sound well at the top of Whiteball, unfortunately it appears it was being shoved however

 

You can't knock the effort from the front, but this should end any of the above speculation.

 

I think it could of pulled the load if allowed, might of been a bit of a slog, Churston poses more risk with a 25mph run up, than a 60mph run up at Whiteball.

 

The load without the DL was 10 for 369 tons tare and 395 tons full so I am sure the 5 could have managed that alone. Whilst I haven't yet done a full analysis the figures suggest that 45212 was taking the full load until about Wellington as the speed profile matches other runs. Certainly the sustained 43 mph for the last mile to the tunnel would not have been possible without help.

 

Was there really any serious speculation that it was a diesel free climb? Must be the heat.

 

No I wasn't on the 5 yesterday because I knew there would be a diesel on the back. As for 'qualified to comment'. Possibly. I had a quick run through my Mainline Tours list and have only 'done' Whiteball Westbound 148 times behind steam in preservation behind everything from 3440 City of Truro to 60163 Tornado. Know a bit about the bank and the abilities of every class of engine that's gone over it in with various loads. Only experiences with a Black 5 were the Royal Duchys of 29/6 and 6/7/14 with 45407 and Mr Churchill driving. The engine was being worked hard both times with load 8. Both times we reached mp171 at 50ish but lost speed to enter Whiteball Tunnel at 38 and 40.

45212 into the tunnel at 42.6 with load 10 and a dead Class 47? In your dreams.

 

Sorry, I meant the whole the consist with the diesel included. I've seen a five up Sapperton with 11 on, so not impossible, though you're probably going to have to flog the loco. I guess the late running all but guaranteed the assistance.

 

But 5212 is no ordinary Black 5

 

Did they put a diesel on the back of all the other late running trains that caused the delay in the first place to make sure they made up time?

We tend to obsess about steam causing delays but ignore the root cause at times.

 

The real issue here was the price of a standard ticket. Some people grumbled at the increase of the Torbay's, but it seem's a bargain in comparison, especially when you've got 35028 & 60163 as rostered locos. Having three locomotives is obviously a factor, though I can't see how the standard class folk will continue to pay those prices, regardless of the London start.

 

On reflection yes you are correct

515 tons

 

I think the issue was signalling at BTM-again. 45212 was in place very early

 

That's a fair point. What always impresses me is how NR manage to accommodate the trains after such delays or by late running services. Charter trains have paid for access too and whilst not being the priority, signalmen do work trains through the system. I always remember Leander being offered and earlier departure from Preston just ahead of a Pendolino. The fireman was up for the challenge!

 

Meant to say that once I had worked out the load it was clear the even 45212 which is in the class 6/7 category could not have sustained that speed into the tunnel with 515 tons. I don't think the DL was doing very much though but it is obvious from the You Tube vide that it was working. Out of interest the times and speeds were Silk Mills 3/41 at 36, Norton Fitzwarren FB 4/33 at 41, Victory LC 6/02 at 42.6, MP 167, 7/21 at 44.2. Bradford LC, 8/12 at 45.5, 47.4 after, Poole Siding (MP 168) 9/56 at 45.5, Wellington 11/26 at 46, MP 171, 12/29 at 49.0, Beam Bridge 13/49 at 43.6, MP 172.5, 14/30 at 43.3, 41.8 after, Tunnel In 15.26 at 42.6, Tunnel Out 16/17 at 44.0. So it looks like the DL kicked in at Wellington. The 5 was working very hard throughout and well done to young Mathew Earnshaw for his great work with the shovel.

 

To clarify 45212 was in place west of BTM early but backed onto the train late and then the signallers allowed the 1026 stopper to Weston SM go in front even though we were ready. So we followed that and got looped at Yatton. The 5 would not have kept the 48 minute booking to Taunton anyway with its 60 mph speed limit.

 

I wonder what would have happened if it had been left to get on with it and the DL not working? I remember a storming effort southbound over Shap with a 5 on 13 in 1966. I am sure it would have made it.