S&C reopening special with Flying Scotsman 31/03/17

There is £4.5m of public money to mitigate as far as reasonable plus the operational cost of maintenance, support crew etc.
Probably in order to secure agreement for the final phase repair costs a business plan was established where the forecast income was based on a significant daily hire rate, a five figure sum has been mentioned. It is quite sensible and goodwill does not pay the bills - in the short term.

 

Ultimately if it runs light loaded its a failure, if it runs full the KWVR will make their envisaged return, the market will decide and I suspect that very few of us on here are the market that it is envisaged will fill the train?

I note that it is suggested in the bumpf that its a gig in association with Northern, Network Rail and Friends of the Settle & Carlisle, so no mention of the NRM who I assume will just get their fee for hire so we shall see.

 

As a lineside photographer and long-term supporter of the KWVR I can see both sides of the argument BUT an easy solution would be that once the fee has been paid then lineside access remains valid for one year. I feel the bigger problem on the day / week, however, is going to be availability of parking spaces given that the public services are scheduled to begin at Haworth where parking space is already limited.

 

Secondary point, its not as if any return the KWVR make will be going into shareholders pockets, will it not all be reinvested in the heritage railway and preservation projects - so sounds like a win win for everyone?

 

I am not a KWVR member but I believe membership includes a limited supply of free tickets plus discount at other times. As far as I can see, neither concession will be valid on the Flying Scotsman trains, and nor on the mainline special. Members appear to have to pay the same fare as non-members in order to participate in either very special occasion.

Hence, how are photographers being treated unfairly if they are also being asked to pay an additional fee for a special, one event, like in effect any other member is?

Whatever the costs of staging the event (and they will be considerable), this is a unique opportunity for the KWVR, like every other Railway Flying Scotsman has or will visit, to effectively 'win the lottery' and make a 'life changing' amount of money (for a lot more effort than picking the right 6 numbers, admittedly!) which will help secure the future viability and continuation of the line.

I am afraid photographers complaining can only serve to reinforce the usually unfair impression of them held by many involved with heritage railways, which then ends up being manifest in the sort of 'extreme measures that affect the many in order to deal with the very few' that modern society delights in!

Steven

 

I've visited the KWVR - my local steam railway - several times a year since 1965. I fully concur with Steve's observation that the KWVR's volunteers are a decent friendly bunch who have got the right balance between professional railway operation and letting their visitors enjoy themselves.

I'm not a permit holder although I've been considering it, and the Scotsman event might have clinched it. I fully understand that our membership privileges (e.g. half price travel) are suspended for special events. That's made clear in the conditions of membership. But if I'd forked out for membership AND a lineside pass (not an insignificant investment), I would be a little miffed to find that I'd have to find a further £25 for the week.

I'll give it a miss, I think.

 

If they want to make more money out of photographers, will they be having a berger bar on Keighley banks for the punters, a grand stand viewing paltform in the top field for the crowds?
Or even the cheaper option of buying a 600mm lense and hire an helicopter for a trip along the line. --- all photograghers to wave their new vests as we fly past

Jokingly John

 

I don't think the supplement of £25 over the cost of an annual membership and lineside pass is altogether the whole issue. Many who hold a lineside permit will be regular photographers who will happily pay much more for a day's photo charter and perhaps looking at the Scotsman week on the Worth Valley as a multi day charter then it isn't a huge extra amount. And as a member I don't blame the railway for trying to maximise the return from hiring Scotsman, but it is strange that the lineside permit supplement is higher than the fare to travel behind the loco.
My main concern is I see an unwelcome precedent here in that as far as I know this is the first time photographers holding lineside permits have been asked for a supplement for a 'one-off' or 'special' event and I do wonder whether the Worth Valley or others will take this approach again. And I'm not saying that out of self interest as at the moment I have no lineside permits.

 

This is a pretty good summing up of the situation as far as I see it too. Thin end of the wedge it maybe but I think the railway's approach is wrong and the wording of the memo smacks of something that might have come out of communist China (tongue in cheek by the way).

The encouragement of whistleblowing by those who choose to pay the additional £25 and the threat of 'removal' from the railway for anyone who isn't wearing a 'special vest' does not go down well from a railway that in many ways, relies on the goodwill of its supporters. Quite how it is going to carry out its threat to 'remove' the miscreants I don't know, perhaps a Monty Python esq train equipped with heavy lifting gear will be following closely behind each of Scotsman's runs?

Seriously though, I for one would have been quite happy to chuck an extra few quid into a donations bucket to help with the coffers, although I think (and hope) that the revenue from fares alone will more than provide a return for a tidy credit in the black. I object to being mandated into paying £25 on top of what has already been paid for lineside access and the approach that has been taken in relation to it. Of course, some people will say that I could always stay away, but with all due respect, that would be missing the point that I'm trying to make.

Incidentally, I hold a season ticket for a football club which I keenly support (I won't reveal which club in case everyone roars with laughter) and in a similar vein, I wouldn't be expected to be charged extra if for example, we were to draw a big name team in the FA cup. Rightly or wrongly I'm applying the same principle here.

 

Plenty of football teams have different pricing structures depending on who they are playing. Is this not just a variant of that?

 

£20 for a days photography seems good value for me for those interested in this sort of thing. I won't be going as the 'wally' factor is going to be off the scale and an A3 on a single track Midland branch line just doesn't do it for me. For the tight fisted there a a number of long distance locations on the KWVR.

 

That is worth doing

 

I agree John unfortunately but it is spreading to other railways. Royal Scot running an NYMR Charter on single track =£100.







Particapants being exploited like this

 

I haven't seen that one whoever the charter organiser is it's probably not his fault but the railway for charging over the top. My only criticism of the organiser would be he should have walked away from it.

 

That's what Matt Allen did when the cost of a proposed charter with Braunton on the Midhants would have been overall £100, due the high day hire rate of the loco.

 

It's £25 if you are already a member and a lineside permit holder. Otherwise it's £25 membership, £20 annual permit, £25 special event supplement. That's £70. Not quite such good value, unless you plan to spend a large part of the year in the Worth Valley.

 

Er £70 good sir ! ( Don't hav 2 Maths O levels and 1 A level for nuffink )

 

Sidmouth makes a good point here. The NRM loves to tell us how 60103 is helping the NRM to connect with the public, as a roving ambassador. But if it's only accessible to the well-off, then the NRM is failing to connect with a large part of its public.