S&D Midsomer

Ah...ignorance, arrogance, insults, swearing, and borderline racism. What a delightful chap you are. You also completely ignored all valid points sent in your direction as they don't fit with your aggressively negative viewpoint. I'm glad that other people/authorities see the value of local history/community and see fit to award grants, and the S&D group certainly don't need to justify their existence to someone who will never see good in anything they do.

Back on block for you my trolling friend.

 

Arghhh - Now we are friends. =D> My day is complete. Sorry to be a 'negative-nelly' but I just asked for clarification of what the National Lottery's contribution is, and how data has been collected to justify the claim 'it is well supported locally'. 10 men cannot build a double track mainline whether you like it or not. The original post said (or words to that effect) that due to the geographic location volunteers are thin on the ground and that the crew which can be counted on two hands have done a superb job. I don't deny they have indeed done this, but it isn't much of a business case to only have a workforce of 10 people?

James - that is not really an excuse for a sulk is it? It isn't as though I have made disparaging remarks about the disabled is it? Please don't be cross as I value our friendship and think you are a very very very nice and interesting person.

Lastly, I am not racist. My cleaner is an Indian lady and she is very good. I would recommend her to anyone.

Best wishes,
MM

 

"Mmmm - from all 10 of you. Bet the Severn Valley are ******* themselves as we speak. Its not arrogance, just common sense. The little schemes pop-up one by one and now they seem to be disappearing one by one. Why don't you do something that will make a difference to the world of preservation and restore or help rebuild something useful like a pre-nationalization carriage, rare wagon or long forgotten loco or even help extend a mainstream line that is likely to survive for your grandchildren to enjoy? How much time, effort and money has been squandered on schemes like friends of Riccerton Junction, Bramley Line and so on that have got absolutely nowhere? Building a double track railway, clearing 170,000 tonnes of fill and installing infrastructure an operation of a railway business is not going to be completed by 10 men even if they are good, or even related to Superman."

Well I suppose we just have to accept that there are elitist idiots in every sector of life. The 10 or so active members I mentioned are regularly augmented by students and other volunteers during the summer, plus I notice from the discussion board that there was some mention of requesting the help of the Royal Engineers. I'm not sure how viable that is, but the point is that we may be a small bunch but we have good workable ideas. The local council gave us a grant last year, which I think is an annual contribution, so that shows they have faith in us. We don't really have to justify ourselves to you, especially not when we're quite happy with our progress so far and optimistic for the future. Go and take your rudeness elsewhere, if we fail, then you can come back and have a go. Until then, either butt out or come down to MSN and help.

 

Mr B,

I am neither elitist or rude to you. I have asked for clarification of your statements. Your reply offered neither, just defence rhetorick. How much was the lottery grant? How have you measured survey data. How are 10 of you going to shift 170,000 tonnes of fill? Take a boot-full home every night and spread it round the garden??? If you want to be taken seriously, you need to provide answers, not to me but to potential investors. I ask probing questions but they are nothing compared to what the lottery fund will want to know before the cheque-book comes out. There is a good thread on this website entitled 'golden age'. You may do well to read it.

James - are we friends again? I am really missing you.

 

I have read the Golden Age thread and am well aware of all the legal, financial and volunteer shortages that the movement faces for the future. Back in 1994 aged 20 the choice was simple. We ere a group of disgruntled S&D enthusiasts who had witnessed the deliberate demolition of Prestleigh viaduct etc etc and wanted to try and regain a foothold on the real S&D again as we were unhappy that the trust at Washford appeared to turn a blind eye to the continued destruction. Bob Gorringe, the head of Norton Radstock college was going to sell Midsomer Norton South for a dozen houses, to help pay for a new building on the Radstock campus. The choice was, try and save the station, with intact shelter, stables, station, goods shed and 1914 concrete loading gauge or walk away and let it be demolished. The S&D isnt a noddy line The signalbox "excact replica" is amazing, the magazine is a first class professional production and there are many skilled volunteers on site and behind the scenes who couldnt possibly travel to Toddington, Bishops Lydeard or Swanage to volunteer and so are not detracting from the overall movement. There is a place for smaller lines. The Chilcompton infill is a major obstacle but the project will be a success even with a mile of trackbed. All volunteers reading this do not be disheartened. You are making a valuble contribution.

 

How much is the lottery grant then?

Why is it the people who defend the least viable schemes the loudest never ever come up with the actual figures when asked to justify their position or substantiate their claims? Then they usually go quiet...

Might as well pop a sub-station in and run a length of 3rd rail as well??

Far from detracting from the achievments made, it is abundentely clear to anyone that a workforce of 10 (by economics of scale) is not going to acheive a great deal. Yes, the signalbox maybe fantastic and the magazine wonderful but that does not make an operating preserved railway. That is a signalbox museum with a nice magazine in it. You need the funding, P.Way, C&W, Loco, S&T, civils and operational staff as well. 10 people are going to be stretched a bit with that lot.

The S&D was a lovely line in a lovely part of the world but it is gone and I doubt will ever come back in any meaningful and long lasting form unless it is reinstated as part of a strategic railway network.




Please don't sulk - I want to come trainspotting with you. I have ironed my best bobble-hat! [-o<

 

"I have read the Golden Age thread and am well aware of all the legal, financial and volunteer shortages that the movement faces for the future. Back in 1994 aged 20 the choice was simple. We ere a group of disgruntled S&D enthusiasts who had witnessed the deliberate demolition of Prestleigh viaduct etc etc and wanted to try and regain a foothold on the real S&D again as we were unhappy that the trust at Washford appeared to turn a blind eye to the continued destruction. Bob Gorringe, the head of Norton Radstock college was going to sell Midsomer Norton South for a dozen houses, to help pay for a new building on the Radstock campus. The choice was, try and save the station, with intact shelter, stables, station, goods shed and 1914 concrete loading gauge or walk away and let it be demolished. The S&D isnt a noddy line The signalbox "excact replica" is amazing, the magazine is a first class professional production and there are many skilled volunteers on site and behind the scenes who couldnt possibly travel to Toddington, Bishops Lydeard or Swanage to volunteer and so are not detracting from the overall movement. There is a place for smaller lines. The Chilcompton infill is a major obstacle but the project will be a success even with a mile of trackbed. All volunteers reading this do not be disheartened. You are making a valuble contribution."

Thank you Mendips Engineman. Maunsell Man, your mouth just flaps too much. As for the Lottery, perhaps you missed that mention I made of the early 20th century coal wagon that we are restoring - work is progressing well on that and when its finished it will be mounted on a short stretch of rail on a plinth in a grassy area overlooking the yard just in front of the old stable block, which is itself being converted into a museum. Guess who's paying for the restoration of the wagon? Thats right, the lottery. So they've already opened their chequebook to help us out.

Trolls eh? Ha, ha, ha.

=D>

 

oh yes - the 20th century coal wagon. Very useful for pulling the estimated 300,000 visitors around. As I said, the SVR are quaking in their boots with the new competition. What about funding for the 170,000 tonnes of fill to be removed or the P.Way material, etc? A Sierra estate full of muck flytipped in the layby up the road every week is not going to clear it that quickly??

What are your estimates for visitors for the next 10 years? What is your cash flow, labour resource and expansion forecasts for the next 5? Your previously prepared business case must include this data?

Sorry - you need to convince me a bit more than that. Calling someone a troll because they dare ask an educated question is not adding to the credibility of the scheme. Hard facts, planning and resources do.

 

I dont wish to enter into an argument, but where did the 300,000 visitors come from?

The Great Central 'only' get around 100,00 a year with 7miles of mainline railway.

 

Sorry, I've been on forums before where people have asked me similar questions. I would make two points here, 1) I am not the spokesperson for the Trust, so if you really are that interested in that information why don't you email the trust and find out yourself 2) it would be totally pointless even if I did know that information, because people who engage in such dialogue only do so with the objective of starting an argument, the intention being to continually outsmart the other in order to enhance their own image and status within the respective online community.

I've no intention of pandering to your inflated ego, and I don't have to anyway, because if I wasn't satisfied with the work the trust were doing I wouldn't bother cycling all the way down part of the route from Midford to Midsomer Norton on numerous Sundays to join in.

You may think you're top dog, so fine, go off and pander to your own delusions. You can think what you like really, it doesn't impress me one bit.

Sad individual. :lol:

 

To my knowledge, as an S&DRHT member, the most recent grant from the Heritage Lottery Fund was £48,900, awarded last year. This money is for various projects around the station area, most notably setting up a museum & visitor centre in the old stable block at Midsomer Norton station.

The above information can easily be found by looking on the Somerset & Dorset Railway Heritage Trust official website at http://www.sdjr.co.uk/pages/news_storie ... chive.html.

There is no way that the Midsomer Norton scheme was ever intended to be, or ever will be, the new Severn Valley Railway, I can't see where Maunsell Man get's this idea from nor why he is intent on slagging off the Midsomer Norton project so much?

Do you support or volunteer on any heritage railways, Mr Maunsell?

When the plan of work up to about 2015 as laid out by mendipsengineman in his previous post, an accurate and achievable summary of what is actually going on at MSN, the obvious way to proceed with the excavation of Chilcompton Tunnel is to procure another grant from the Heritage Lottery Fund that would finance that project through the use of specialist subcontractors. They'd supply the machinery, do the work, take away all the spoil... sorted.

Yes, that would cost a big chunk of cash, but so what? Mr Maunsell's beloved SVR gets it's share of HLF money so why not let the South West have a big dollop of that for a change! There's the best part of 10 years to go before any such excavation scheme would commence, so there's loads of time for the S&DRHT committee to get funding in place.

Please note the above is my personal opinion not that of the S&DHRT, just in case Mr Maunsell starts slagging them off again.

Regards

Andrew

 

Oh dear - It has resorted to name calling. Last bastion of the unimaginative. Cycling there - can't you afford a car? I am not top-dog here or have desires to be, have no delusions of granduer or suffer from an inflated ego. I asked an educated question and got a load of defensive nonsense back. Your assumptions are as inaccurate as the previous one where you thought I was part of the WSR. (hint - Maunsell man - Maunsell - Southern.... geddit, not Churchward man or Collet man or Hawksworth man...).

If you have had questions similar to mine on other forum, it must be fairly obvious that other people have thought the same. The best way to truimph in a discussion is to present hard facts and plans and not start calling the first person who dares question your scheme silly names. If you can do this you may generate extra support and gain a body or two. As it stands you have devalued your scheme. Now - can you answer the questions relating to funding, support and business plan or do we deduce that there isn't any answers and the scheme as it stands is futile?

 

"Oh dear - It has resorted to name calling. Last bastion of the unimaginative. Cycling there - can't you afford a car? I am not top-dog here or have desires to be, have no delusions of granduer or suffer from an inflated ego. I asked an educated question and got a load of defensive nonsense back. Your assumptions are as inaccurate as the previous one where you thought I was part of the WSR. (hint - Maunsell man - Maunsell - Southern.... geddit, not Churchward man or Collet man or Hawksworth man...).

If you have had questions similar to mine on other forum, it must be fairly obvious that other people have thought the same. The best way to truimph in a discussion is to present hard facts and plans and not start calling the first person who dares question your scheme silly names. If you can do this you may generate extra support and gain a body or two. As it stands you have devalued your scheme. Now - can you answer the questions relating to funding, support and business plan or do we deduce that there isn't any answers and the scheme as it stands is futile?"

How about reading the post from penydarren above your own one. Then you might learn something.

Furthermore, no I can't afford a car as yet, but whats that got to do with it? Even if I did have a car I would still cycle because a) I love cycling b) I'm an environmentalist, and therefore sieze any opportunity to avoid using the car with enthusiasm and c) I like looking at the old route as I cycle along it. At a good pace it takes me about an hour and a half, so if I leave at 9 I'm usually fit for work at about 11 once I've had a cup of tea and a rest.

No I haven't devalued my scheme, I have actually tried to defend it against someone who's obviously got nothing better to do than snipe at small schemes just for the fun of it.

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Oh - its Monday. I always like to start the week with a bit of controversy and lively discussion. I am not sniping at small schemes, just those that aren't practical, thought through, sufficiently supported or economically viable. It fustrates me that the movement divides itself repeatedley and spreads it scarce (and getting scarcer) resources ever more thinly. Scheme after scheme after scheme is launched with good intention and hopes that the HLF will bale out the finances and thousands of bodies in overall will appear. Do you know what the criteria is to obtain this money? It is a bit different applying for a few thousand here and there for wagons than getting the millions in the bag for the fill removal. The Bluebell haven't been able to fund the removal of the tip with the HLF so what makes you think you will have the success that one of the oldest and most established lines in the country couldn't achieve?

Relying on HLF monies for capital schemes in 10 years is risky and not practical. Without this huge grant being available, the scheme is effectively stumped. Do you have any indication at all that the HLF is going to way-in with the loot or is it a pie-in-the-sky hope?

errm - I think the penydarren bit is related to the number of posts made as opposed to the name of the punter. You are most aggressive in your posting. Your should get out more and de-stress a little. Stress is a factor in major health issues.

btw - I am not beloved off the SVR. It is a shining example of how a preserved line can develop. Yes, I have contributed both finacially and physically on a preserved line (for 18 odd years nearly every weekend).

 

"Oh - its Monday. I always like to start the week with a bit of controversy and lively discussion. I am not sniping at small schemes, just those that aren't practical, thought through, sufficiently supported or economically viable. It fustrates me that the movement divides itself repeatedley and spreads it scarce (and getting scarcer) resources ever more thinly. Scheme after scheme after scheme is launched with good intention and hopes that the HLF will bale out the finances and thousands of bodies in overall will appear. Do you know what the criteria is to obtain this money? It is a bit different applying for a few thousand here and there for wagons than getting the millions in the bag for the fill removal. The Bluebell haven't been able to fund the removal of the tip with the HLF so what makes you think you will have the success that one of the oldest and most established lines in the country couldn't achieve?

Relying on HLF monies for capital schemes in 10 years is risky and not practical. Without this huge grant being available, the scheme is effectively stumped. Do you have any indication at all that the HLF is going to way-in with the loot or is it a pie-in-the-sky hope?

errm - I think the penydarren bit is related to the number of posts made as opposed to the name of the punter. You are most aggressive in your posting. Your should get out more and de-stress a little. Stress is a factor in major health issues.

btw - I am not beloved off the SVR. It is a shining example of how a preserved line can develop. Yes, I have contributed both finacially and physically on a preserved line (for 18 odd years nearly every weekend)."

Well as far as practicality is concerned, you just leave that up to us to decide, its really none of your business to be quite frank, and we are quite happy with what we've achieved so far thank you.

As for your comments re the HLF, quite simply if you don't ask you don't get. Its obviously not guaranteed that the HLF will fund it, but I think its definitely worth a try. And if it doesn't work out that way, we'll get our heads together and think of something else. Its the continual working away at problems that makes life interesting, better to try and at least have a chance of doing something than to not bother at all.

Stumped? Not really. There is actually a fair bit of distance up to the infill at Chilcompton, enough for a small but reasonably significant bit of running line. Besides, if we manage to get a bridge for Silver Street, then we can go the other way instead, in which case we can meet up with the non-Sustrans Five Arches project that aims to bridge the Radstock-MSN road and put in a cycle path. With a bit of co-ordination and local support (which is favourable) we could reach Radstock. We are far from stumped!!!

Yes, stress can be a major factor in health issues, but not if its counter-acted by a low-meat diet and regular exercise. I am a gardener, a cyclist, and at the age of 41, I played hockey for the uni hockey club last year. I think I am in pretty good shape for a forty-something to be quite honest. And as for aggressive, well in my experience if you don't put up a tenacious defence of your interests, you just get walked over, so I have no problem with aggression, if applied correctly. Therefore, what do you expect? You insult our scheme, of course I am going to rise to its defence, and if you don't like it, well tough.

I agree, I love the SVR too, although I haven't (yet) had the chance to visit it properly, unfortunately.

 

Well, I've just learnt who 'mendipsengineman' is, so I'm going to just ignore your comments from hereon Maunsell Man and leave 'mendips...' to it, as his experience and knowledge vastly outweighs mine.

I suspect however that that won't make much difference in the long run, as you'll probably just carry on ignoring what he and penydarren have to say. The best way to deal with troublemakers is just to leave them muttering to themselves in a corner somewhere.

Ta da.

:smt039

 

"My Lords, Ladies and Gentlemen, this next fight is scheduled for 12 rounds. In the Bluebell Corner, weighing in at 'oh dear, that can't be right', it's the Man for whom only a Spam Can will do..... Maunsell Man!!!! And in the (ahem) Redstock North Corner, weighing in at 'I weigh less now than I did ten years ago', a man who hopes to say "on yer bike".... Beaky!!!!"

Gentlemen, I think it is fair to say that everyone is entitled to their opinion, and they are not required to accord with everyone else's! Could we possibly leave it there?

 

I haven't insulted your scheme at all, just asked pertinant questions. Not all new schemes are dead ducks, but you need to answer key questions to justify your position. If every railway enthusiast in the country had his own way, every single piece of closed railway would be reopened. That may seem to be a ludicrous scenerio and totally unrealistic BUT, how many new schemes are out there? When these schemes become established there will be another wave fo schemes mooted by more off-shoot groups who have decided they cannot get along with the railway management and so on. The situation is not sustainable and soon or later the market and resources will reach saturation point. Many people, myself included think that this point has been and gone and casualties will occur. If you spend 5 years breaking your back at a small preservation scheme that someone told you was a dead-cert success and it ends up as a housing estate, you ain't gonna be very happy.

Debate makes a boring Monday in the office go a bit quicker. Can't be that good though, there hasn't been a moderator in sight yet!

 

Ha - good post! Someone else is having a slow day!

btw - King Arthur every time!!!! \/

 

I'd actually like to put some personal perspective on this actually. I became interested in railways at the age of 12, and the S&D in particular. I never thought I'd see the day when there were two active preservation schemes on the S&D route, never mind working on one of them. I therefore regard it as a privilege to have done that. If at the end therefore it all goes pear shaped, I personally can say, well at least I got a chance to work on the S&D, which is something that I never thought I would have done when I used to watch those Ivo Peters video's on VHS back in the early 80's.

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