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Saphos Trains 'Golden Arrow' - 26/10/19

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by jackshepherd, Jul 31, 2019.

  1. RalphW

    RalphW Part of the furniture Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Did she slip to a stand or stall?
     
  2. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Member

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    The Mk2s are several tons heavier on average than Mk1s.
     
  3. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Member

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    Hand-sanding makes no difference to a stall, which occurs when adhesion isn't lost, but the power available is not enough to overcome gravity and friction.
     
  4. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I am really not sure how the buck for this can be laid at NR's door. I imagine they are not awash with steam specialists and depend upon the specialist toc's who run steam to propose routes and loads which are appropriate!?

    P.s as I have been avoiding NP I only picked this up via Google alerts, in light of it being the Golden Arrow a lot of the news stories seem to be being illustrated with Tangmere in full GA paraphernalia as I assume that's what is showing up for journalists googling trying to illustrate their stories. Poor old Tangers, whilst she has had her moments she is getting the blame when its nowt to do with her!


    Sent from my SM-J330FN using Tapatalk
     
  5. RalphW

    RalphW Part of the furniture Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    I am aware of the difference having experienced both, on different occasions, first hand from the footplate on Miles Platting.
     
  6. Dan Hamblin

    Dan Hamblin New Member

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    Has it left Canterbury yet?

    Regards,

    Dan
     
  7. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Member

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    NR has the final say over what can run where and when - it's that simple. They have clearly-defined maximum unassisted loads for the various power classifications of locos on specific routes. They are duty-bound only to approve workings which meet all the criteria laid down. It doesn't matter what a TOC may bring to them for approval to run - the rules are stringent, and they are there exactly so that people don't need to be steam experts; they just need to be able to read.
     
  8. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Member

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    Still at sunny Canterbury. Not the best trip I've ever been on.
     
  9. Phil K

    Phil K New Member

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    We’re going back to VIC diesel hauled, no Kent Coast direct via Ashford
     
  10. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Member

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    So, given your experience, which do you think happened, given that hand sanding was being done for over an hour on a 1 in 60 climb in damp conditions in peak leaf fall season with a significantly overloaded train?
    So has 70000 has been detached, or is it running in light steam in the train? What a shame for the passengers, and a setback for 'Saphos', one assumes.
     
  11. Dan Hamblin

    Dan Hamblin New Member

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    Thanks Phil, such a shame the tour turned out this way. Hopefully you'll all be back at Victoria as soon as possible.

    Regards,

    Dan
     
  12. torgormaig

    torgormaig Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it is that simple at all, but hay..... what do I know about charter operations on the main line? These things are not as black and white as some on Nat Pres would have you believe.

    Peter
     
  13. Phil K

    Phil K New Member

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    no , she’s on the rear. Shed is on the front.
     
  14. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Member

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    Oh, the ignominy!
     
  15. Chris_Sav

    Chris_Sav New Member

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    Just left CBW 193 late
     
  16. mrKnowwun

    mrKnowwun Part of the furniture

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    The Iron Drag
     
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  17. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Member

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    OK, fair enough. Let's assume everything so far expounded, including by me, is wrong. Is it therefore possible definitively to establish:
    1. Which organisation has the final say on what train weight is allowed to run on specific routes with which unassisted motive power unit (loco),
    2. What rules exist within that organisation's structure for approving requests from operators,
    3. What seasonal sub-rules exist, i.e. autumn workings?

    Of course, this may be a longer project than is appropriate for this specific thread. If it is not possible to establish the above three points, given the range of expertise in main line running on the forum, then that may be an indicator of where the fundamental problem lies.
     
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  18. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Member

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    Given the nickname of the county of Kent - The Garden Shed!
     
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  19. andrewtoplis

    andrewtoplis Member

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    This cannot be laid solely at the door of NR.

    The TOC has a responsibility to bid a path that works and to provide a train that can run within it.

    Providing a train that is overloaded and runs into problems is in no one's interests and will spread delays to other network users.
     
  20. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Member

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    Yes, but, I ask again, who approves the bid? What criteria are used by that approver to decide whether to approve or not? Who controls the network and the juxtaposition of trains on it? Does the approver just take the bidder's word for it that the train proposed can perform, or is there a detailed and specific checking mechanism?
     

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