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ScotRail Steam

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by rule55, May 21, 2015.

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  1. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    How does that come about, Ian? Curious to know?
     
    Steve, May 29, 2015
    #21
  2. sycamore

    sycamore Member

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    I would have put a '5' as RA7 given an 8F is RA6 (according to Wikipedia) and has more driving wheels etc... I can't think of a large steam loco with low axel loading to be honest...
     
    sycamore, May 29, 2015
    #22
  3. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I always thought Black 5's were RA7 but I've been trying to confirm this and, so far, failed. The BR Cl.5's were definitely RA7.
     
    Steve, May 30, 2015
    #23
  4. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    I always thought that apart from Route Availability setting the maximum axle load on a line, it also had an effect on the maximum speed of any train that might be allowed on that line with a RA higher than the line classification. So if a RA7 locomotive were to operate on a RA5 line then it might be able to do so under a restricted maximum speed to that which was normal on that route.

    Tornado is supposed to be going north of Inverness in June on one of the Scot Rail trips. This line has a number of severe speed restrictions for all services - e.g. Lairg 15 mph - but most of the line has a limit of between 55 and 70. So if there is going to be some special dispensation for Tornado to run the route then, logically, it will do so under a much reduced speed. Either way, that will be a treat in store for the good folk of Sutherland.
     
    Big Al, May 30, 2015
    #24
  5. Ian Riley

    Ian Riley Part of the furniture Loco Owner

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    When Brian Penney and Sam Foster, the highly respected locomotive mechanical examiners, and VAB first 'certified' 45407, they researched and the 'Rolling Stock Library' confirmed that ex LMS Stanier Class Fives were to be restricted as RA 5, when 76079 was registered, they restricted it as RA4............
     
    Ian Riley, May 30, 2015
    #25
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  6. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    The BR Cl.4 2-6-0's were RA4. Their 4-6-0 equivalents depended on which tender they had. The NYMR's 75029 is also RA4
     
    Steve, May 31, 2015
    #26
  7. twr12

    twr12 Well-Known Member

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    Here's a good one: Original Bulleid Light Pacifics are RA5.......
     
    twr12, May 31, 2015
    #27
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  8. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    Go anywhere loco. Maybe, one day, 34067 will be liberated from the south for an extended period to visit some more exotic locations
    Or someone stumps up to put Wells back where it belongs.
     
    26D_M, May 31, 2015
    #28
  9. bakabung

    bakabung Well-Known Member

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    Tornado has been there before, June 13 2013, seen on the way back just South of Aviemore.

    Edit....just realised that you said "North of Inverness" sorry!


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2015
    bakabung, May 31, 2015
    #29
  10. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Tornado has indeed been as far as Inverness, but AFAIK not on the line via Dingwall. To be pedantic, she has been "north" of Inverness, but only to the extent that the Highland line around Culloden is slightly north.
     
    MellishR, May 31, 2015
    #30
  11. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    What's the far north line like for gradients ? I know Kyle has a few nasty ones. but never been north of Dingwall, only west.
     
    david1984, May 31, 2015
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  12. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

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    According to my gradient proflie book nearly 3 miles of 1 in 72 after Invershin, then just of 2 miles of 1 in 70 after Lairg, then down mainly between 1 in 80 and 1 in 95 for just over 7 miles, 2 miles of 1 in 60 before Dunrobin followed by about 1.5 miles down 1 in 60 the otherside. This covers the section up to Brora.
     
    Paul42, May 31, 2015
    #32
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  13. stevenjcrozier

    stevenjcrozier New Member

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    But a 66 (RA6) was allowed to Mallaig recently and they go to Fort William all the time !
     
    stevenjcrozier, May 31, 2015
    #33
  14. 2J66

    2J66 Well-Known Member

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    According to scot-rail website Crianlarich to Fort William is RA5 but Class 66&67 are allowed with reduced speed over certain sections and bridges. Mallaig is perhaps subject to further special permission.
     
    2J66, May 31, 2015
    #34
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  15. gwr4090

    gwr4090 Part of the furniture

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    RA number depends not only on the loading on each individual axle but also on the spatial distribution of the axles. I believe that on the LNER pacifics it is actually the tender which is the limiting factor, so presumably if the tender is not fully loaded then there may be scope for a special dispensation. ? Just a thought !

    David
     
    gwr4090, Jun 1, 2015
    #35
  16. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    If the spacing of the tender axles is the problem then surely 60163's 4 axle tender might cause problems on the curvature of the lines north of Inverness - irrespective of the quantity of coal and water being carried ? The tender weight of approximately 60 tons on 4 axles gives 15 tons per axle which is comparable to the 125 tons of a Stanier 5 carried on 8 axles giving 15.6 tons per axle (assuming equal weight distribution) hence the importance of ensuring that the axle spacing permits route access.
     
    Fred Kerr, Jun 1, 2015
    #36
  17. malc

    malc Part of the furniture

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    The more sceptical amongst us may also suggest that as these tours are being promoted by ScotRail and operated by DBS, it may be easy to gain the necessary dispensations than if they had been operated by WCR and promoted by RTC (for example).
     
    malc, Jun 1, 2015
    #37
  18. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    If only weight distribution was that simple!
     
    Steve, Jun 1, 2015
    #38
  19. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Agreed but I was trying to explain why it's the tender (and its 4 axles) that will be the source of the problem rather than any weight considerations.
     
    Fred Kerr, Jun 1, 2015
    #39
  20. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    WCR woulden't need to, rather than try and get a juggernaut up a dirt track as is being attempted with 60163 here, they would just use a Black Five, DBS don't have that option.

    If it's true that Mr Varser (yes that one) is now involved with Scotrail as well as NR, then I'd be surprised if WCR are anywhere near the Scotrail steam now, even if they were willing to talk, would the WCR head be open to listening given past dealings ?.
     
    david1984, Jun 1, 2015
    #40
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