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Scottish Railmotor

Discussion in 'Heritage Rolling Stock' started by lil Bear, Feb 1, 2016.

  1. lil Bear

    lil Bear Part of the furniture

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    I remember a while ago (talking 5/6+ years) there was an appeal for assistance with the surviving GNSR Railmotor body, as there was a feeling the body was getting to the point of no return.

    Does anyone know if the Royal Deeside Society ever got anywhere with it, or is it still sat at Ferryhill? Would be a fantastic addition to the preservation scene if it could be restored. Are there any pictures of it as built, can't find any mention of it online except for the VCT record?

    http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=4284
     
  2. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Active Member

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    Is this the one which had an odd-looking sideways-mounted boiler? If so I've seen an "as built" photo, I think one of the magazines published it.
     
  3. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Untouched as far as I am aware; will try to get to have a look at it sometime soon.
     
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  4. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    It was a Cochrane boiler. Seemingly not a success.

    PH
     
  5. lil Bear

    lil Bear Part of the furniture

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  6. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    At the risk of falling into the "wouldn't it be nice" trap, IMHO the Lancashire and Yorkshire or L.N.W.R. types would be a better choice as both seemingly were satisfactory. The GNSR design is known to have been a failure. (It had wooden slatted seats as well!)

    PH
     
  7. lil Bear

    lil Bear Part of the furniture

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    Whilst a reasonable idea, how many L&Y / LNWR Railmotor bodies exist? Can only preserve what we've got, and would using a GNSR body for a L&Y vehicle be like using an LMS 8F for a GWR 10xx..?
     
  8. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    Just don't "preserve" it then! It is just another potential occupant of the linear scrapyard.

    PH
     
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  9. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Active Member

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    Personally I think it's a shame that none of the LNER Sentinel or Clayton types survived, if only because they had such silly names ('Tally-Ho' and 'Bang Up' being two of my favourites).
     
  10. 99Z

    99Z Active Member

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    Looking at the old old old rotting coach photograph... taken ages ago...
    what makes you so sure that enough of the GNSR body exists to be salvaged ?

    but money talks... whilst a GNSR rail motor exists, I'd hazard a guess money would be easier flowing towards an L&Y Railmotor than an obscure scottish failure that no one remembers.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2016
  11. lil Bear

    lil Bear Part of the furniture

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    Nothing - I've never physically seen the vehicle. It was just something I saw years ago, and wondered if anything had ever happened to it.

    What was so bad about the GNSR version? Only mention I can find online is a small piece in the wikipedia article on GNSR locos? Was the vibrations because they were trying to run 40/50mph? Was the boiler unable to keep up with it at these speeds?

    "in 1905 the GNoSR introduced two articulated steam railcars. The locomotive unit was mounted on four 3 feet 7 inches (1.09 m) wheels, one pair driven and with the Cochran patent boiler that was common on stationary engines, but an unusual design for a locomotive. The saloon carriage accommodated 46 third class passengers on reversible lath-and-space seats and a position for the driver with controls using cables over the carriage roof. The cars were introduced on the Lossiemouth branch and the St Combs Light Railway, but there was considerable vibration when in motion that was uncomfortable for the passengers and caused problems for the steam engine. Before they were withdrawn in 1909/10, one was tried on Deeside suburban services, but had insufficient accommodation and was unable to maintain the schedule."
     
  12. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    Best to refer you to the Oakwood Press book by R.W. Rush on the topic of steam railmotors. It would appear that few types made it past the first general overhaul due to problems with vibration or inadequate steaming/haulage capacity. Sometimes both combined! An L.B.S.C.R. "A1" could do far more work for the same fuel consumption and without giving the passengers vibro-massage. Other railways found the same.

    Today an A1x in decent order has no trouble with three bogies and few, if any, railmotors could look at more than one trailer.

    PH
     
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  13. marshall5

    marshall5 Active Member

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    Although not ex LNER a couple of Sentinels still exist - at least one complete n.g.one in Sri Lanka and bodies in Jersey and in S.America (Argentina?). The shame is that the power unit of an ex Jersey railcar survived on the KESR as "Dom" into the 70's. As far as Claytons go I photographed two 3'6"g. examples in Sudan in 1983 which were complete except for boiler and engine. The only difference from the LNER ones seemed to be that the wheels were inside the frames and coupled by chains rather than coupling rods. Wonder if they're still there????
    Ray.
     
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  14. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Is there a chance you could share the photos with us please?
     
  15. Rosedale

    Rosedale Member

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    The Jersey example is - or was, I've heard nothing for a while - being rebuilt in Eastern Europe using the remains of another Sentinel shunter as a power unit.
     
  16. marshall5

    marshall5 Active Member

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    I'd forgotten about that - Romania wasn't it? I've dug out a couple of photos of the SGR Claytons and I'll scan them and try to post later.
    Cheers,
    Ray.
     
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  17. marshall5

    marshall5 Active Member

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    I took the photos during a TEFS tour of Sudan in Dec 1982 - Jan 1983. The first photo is of Sudan Government Railways Clayton Railcar No 900 at Ed Demazeen. The worksplate said 673/2 1929 which makes it one year newer than the LNER's main production batch. Clayton Wagons closed down in Oct. 1929 and all the LNER railcars had gone by 1937. The other was SGR No 899 which was in use as the engineman's mess room at Kosti. Contrary to appearances the running gear is still there covered in mud! I've got some better photos as slides but haven't got round to scanning them yet. Hope they are of interest.
    Clayton Railcar 900 Demazeen Sudan 4 Jan 1983.jpg Clayton Railcar 899 Kosti Sudan 6 Jan 1983.jpg
     
  18. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Fascinating, thanks for sharing the photos.
     
  19. Steve B

    Steve B Well-Known Member

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    There is also a Sentinel Cammel railcar (ex Egypt) at Quainton

    Steve B
     
  20. Rosedale

    Rosedale Member

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    Many thanks for those. I remember seeing one of them years ago in a Colin Garrett book. The most recent LNER survivors in the UK of which I'm aware are a Sentinel body which survived into the 70s as a village cricket pavilion, and a Clayton four wheel trailer body which fell into the sea at Speeton a decade or so ago.
     

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