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Severn Valley 2014 Spring Gala.

Discussion in 'Galas and Events' started by 46118, Aug 17, 2013.

  1. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Surely it's not that difficult a modification to put spring catches in the doors on the GWR sets ?, only a true rivet counter of the highest order would complain about such a thing, but seems increasingly required if the sets are to remain useable in the age of ignorance.
     
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  2. cksteam

    cksteam New Member

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    I have to second that. Seems a silly requirement but still a small price to pay to be able to use those sets at the time you need them most I.e. when your hauling the most passengers.

    As said before this was my first visit to the Severn Valley. Whilst I had a fantastic time it was definatly a bit strange to see Lms and Lner carriages out, but only Gwr engines! I'm not to fussy about it authenticity but it did seem strange.
     
  3. frazoulaswak

    frazoulaswak Member

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    I had a great day at the gala on Saturday (Despite not getting sight of a WTT before I had planned my day...), so thanks to all involved.
    My photos are now on-line on my Zenfolio website here: - http://mickrogers.zenfolio.com/p166455807
    Cheers,
     
  4. Robert Heath No.6

    Robert Heath No.6 Well-Known Member

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    I'll go with that too. Seems a shame, but far less so than the thought of keeping them locked away in a museum, or worse, somewhere!
     
  5. gios

    gios Member

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    If it is true that the clip board brigade have once again determined that history and authenticity must be ignored, in order to satisfy their never ending appetite to control everyone. Then it is to be much regretted.
    How our recent ancestors, or indeed ourselves ever manage to live such long and successful lives must be a continuing conundrum to the newly discovered H&S species - One doubts they ever stop to consider.
    Sensible and common sense Health and Safety yes, but as always the sensible and common sense part is inevitably overlooked.
     
  6. I. Cooper

    I. Cooper Member

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    Wouldn't an easier approach be to fasten a neat engraved sign inside each of the doors giving instruction on how to close the door?

    "Lean through window and turn handle to lock (or unlock) door.
    No need to slam."​

    That way the coaching stock isn't fundamentally altered, the passengers aren't left scratching their heads trying to work out why the door doesn't seem to be working, and the cost shouldn't be too expensive.

    In an era when even slam-door seems to confuse some people, the concept of opening the window to reach out and manually lock/unlock the door is going to be totally unexpected. It's not that passengers object to doing it, they simply don't know what to do, and there's nothing to tell them. Some neat instructions staring people in the face might help alleviate the problem.
     
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  7. threelinkdave

    threelinkdave Well-Known Member

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    Whilst I agree that such a notice would help some many would not see it or otherwise not comply. Let me give an example. above both doors in the LMS brake are signs saying do not obstruct the window - for use of guard, or words to that effect, in white on red. On saturday I had to tap an enthusiast firmly on the shoulder to attract his attention to get him to move away from the window so I could sight a signal. How do I know he was an enthusiast, who else would be wearing goggles. I can forgive joe public for not realising the guards area is private but not a true enthusiast.
     
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  8. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I travelled in two different carriages over the weekend (*), in both of which the only way to open (or secure) the door was to drop the window, lean out and manually turn the handle - or to find a nice porter to do it for you! It didn't seem to cause any problems duringa relatively busy gala weekend (there was in any case a laminated document explaining the history of each carriage, and the instructions for opening the window and door) so I am at a loss to understand why similar doors are seemingly problematic on the SVR?

    (*) On a different railway, for the avoidance of doubt.

    Tom
     
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  9. I. Cooper

    I. Cooper Member

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    I would suggest the two types of sign are not really comparable. A 'reserved for guard' label is likely to be ignored in the same way the 'do not flush toilet whilst standing in station' or 'do not lean out of window' signs are, especially during a gala where there is often a scrum to get near door windows and enthusiasts guard their prize possession closely. Even people who do read and acknowledge the sign are likely to take the point of view that the guard can tap them on the shoulder if they wish to look out, leaving the window free for the other X% of the time. A bit like the "reserved for disabled use if necessary" signs by some seats - people are free to use them, but should be prepared to move without complaint if the seats are needed for others. Alternatively they'll think/claim that it's a 'heritage' sign and not relevant.

    Of course I think it's safe to say few people will read a 'how to use the door' sign before use, and those who pull the door behind them as they walk away, oblivious to it bouncing open again behind them are not going to notice a label either, but it's not unusual at both std gauge and narrow gauge railways who use such door latches to watch passengers getting frustrated as they repeatedly pull the door shut and find it not locking, or stand there on the inside blankly searching all around the door for the handle to open it. For those people, a sign in front of their nose whilst they're trying to work out why it isn't working might be read and acted upon. I've watched and sometimes patiently waited as a fellow passenger whilst someone struggles with the concept of the door latches - you end up trying to decide at what point to politely point out they need to open the window and lean out. ....of course that can then lead to confusion about how they open the window, especially with leather straps!

    At what point are people going to suggest door motors and electric locks are fitted to all coaching stock so doors can be remotely closed and locked by the guard? I'm sure it could be achieved without externally altering the appearance - so photographers won't moan - but surely part of the attraction for visiting such tourist attractions and travelling on old vehicles is to experience old fashioned and out of date technology? The operators of such vehicles just need to give the poor passenger some help on how it works sometimes. The concept of using the outside latch would have been quite normal and obvious in an era of stagecoaches and pony & traps etc., but how many other 'modern' doors require that technique these days?
     
  10. hassell_a

    hassell_a Member

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    They're not. A number of poster have just talked themselves into deciding that they are in the last page or two. If anything they are better as they give a very clear indication (handle vertical) if they are not closed. It is often much harder to spot the 'cocked' handle on LMS, LNER or BR stock when these types of doors aren't shut properly.

    Possible reasons that the GW coaches weren't out:

    1. 8 of the 9 engines out were in BR livery.

    2. A good proportion of the GW stock is under repair/awaiting restoration (see the share issue)
     
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  11. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Apparently it was due lower seating capacity on the reduced length GWR set compared to the teaks.
     
  12. 84A

    84A New Member

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    I don't see why there was a need for the GWR set though? There were only really three full-line trains, from what I could tell, with auto's running in a path where a fourth would have been. Also (as has been said), all stock bar the 28 was British Rail anyway and that looked much better on the freight!
     
  13. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Personally I'd rather not do it at all, but experience shows you can't trust the general public with the doors.

    When the door is shut, the modification would be invisible anyway, so is it that different to fitting a hopper ashpan and and smokebox internal spark arrestor to a locomotive ?, neither are outwardly visible either, but make operation far easier.

    Anyway, my pics from Sunday can be found here.
     
  14. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    I'm led to believe that 9103 has this exact modification and was told it was being considered for GW2 as it went through the works as part of the share issue.
     
  15. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Yes. If you fit a rocking grate, the only person who notices is the fireman, who thanks you for the 15 minutes extra lie in you give him / her.

    If you fundamentally change the door locking mechanism on a carriage door, you change the experience for every passenger - who presumably are attending the railway in part to experience, or learn about, technology as it was. If you want to call yourself a heritage attraction, rather than a fairground ride, you need to be quite careful with modern expedients which actually change the nature of the visitor's experience.

    In any case, I really don't see what the problem is with the older type of handle. They are easy to operate, and as has been pointed out above, easier for platform staff to spot a non-properly fastened door before departure. I don't think more modern slam doors with spring catches are actually much of an improvement: I've seen plenty of people, especially the older / more inform visitors, struggle to shut them as they can't give a strong enough slam from inside; and struggle to open them because their fingers aren't strong enough to pull back the sliding spring catches some doors have. Neither of those is a problem on the old fashioned handle.

    Tom
     
  16. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    While I take your point Tom, I'm not sure it impacts on the experience when the other 4 sets out on a summer day have exactly that type of door catch arrangement, certainly the GWR non dining set always seems to be the last out of the carriage shed, so something so minute to increase it's usage (and presumably slow wear on the other sets if rostering on certain days was more even) can't be that bad ?.
     
  17. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    There are other operational reasons as to why GW2 see's less use than set M, C, N or L and that is capacity out of those sets Sets M & C (the two Mk 1 sets) and set N (the teaks) are preferred as they offer higher capacity. They also have plenty of open seating which is more flexible when it comes to booking coach parties etc than an all compartment train would so I would imagine after overhaul the pecking order will still remain the same for that exact reason meaning GW2 will still be a cover and high day set only.
     
  18. JBTEvans

    JBTEvans Well-Known Member

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    Aren't the GWR & LMS coaches physically shorter than the Mk1s and Teaks though? I thought the LMS rake now has 9 vehicles which is the same length roughly as 8 Mk1s?
     
  19. Southernman99

    Southernman99 Member Friend

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    The LMS coaches are 57ft long except the porthole CK which is 62ft and the FO 7511 which again is 62ft.
    I'm not sure on the lengths of the GW coaches. Although I am sure the hawksworths are longer than Colletts.

    9 LMS coaches together are about 6ft longer than 8 mk 1s.
     
  20. Southernman99

    Southernman99 Member Friend

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    Tom,
    It wouldnt be just the fireman who notices. the cleaners would notice as well. They wouldnt gain 15 minutes extra in bed, its the less time disposing at the end of the day. (and sooner in the pub, sorry shower)

    There are 4 magic words, Rocking grate. hopper ashpan. Disposals done in 20 minutes or less. None of this digging out the fire, raking out the ashpan (although sometimes still needed on hoppers to get the excess out), Smokeboxes are quick to do if you have a big enough barrow.
     

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