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Severn Valley Railway to launch £4,000,000 share issue.

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by geekfindergeneral, Oct 16, 2011.

  1. louis.pole

    louis.pole New Member

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    A very unexpected pair of posts from walton_cw at SVR Online. Can anyone explain why a director should show such a lack of loyalty to his fellow steering group members? If his posts are truthful, it raises doubts over the statements made by others including the SVR's unofficial spokesperson Tigger. If they are not truthful it suggests he has just committed political Harakiri.
     
  2. lil Bear

    lil Bear Part of the furniture

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    Certainly puts the cats back amongst the pigeons, though does it actually change anything? Would seem more a comment on past decisions not present/future.
     
  3. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm not sure how much David Williams has helped with his comments in the latest steam railway either . to quote "poison messages posted anonymously" and "we don't deserve the pot shots from individuals who have their own personal agenda's"

    When comment against is coming from the members and workings members the personal agenda seems to have the SVR at heart
     
  4. geekfindergeneral

    geekfindergeneral Member

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    The kindest interpretation one can put on this latest misfire is that for 12 months the Steamworks Project Team has been operating“ultra vires”, against the recommendation of their own Steering Group, and is out of control. The harshest is that the share offer was fatally flawed – and they may have to give all the money back. In either event, the entire “consultation”process at Bridgnorth and elsewhere was self-evidently a boondoggle, and the Walton posts are just a Director setting out his defence before the retribution begins. Walton can add up – he knows exactly how much cash has been sunk into Xanadu by the Project Team, and he posted because he wants all concerned to know he had nothing to do with it. As a by-product he has made the positions of all the Project Team senior members untenable.

    As for the David Williams comments, I hope he enjoyed making them, because unlike Nat Pres, Steam Railway magazine is on the Heritage Lottery Fund Head Office media monitoring list and all he will have achieved by mis-speaking to that degree is frighten them to death about the prospect of making ANY grant to SVR, ever again. HLF abhors controversy – unlike SVR, who appear mired in it.

    I think some urgent formal clarification, preferably from a grown-up, would be appropriate.

    Neil
     
  5. gios

    gios Member

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    The current revelations concerning the proposed Bridgnorth re-development plan shows, without doubt, that concerns raised by many shareholders and members at the begining of this unfortunate saga were well founded.

    Despite recent assurances from management, the future direction, plans and finances for this proposal are still somewhat clouded in mystery.
     
  6. zigzag

    zigzag New Member

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    Just when we were thinking that the waters were calming and a way ahead could be seen we get the news that Plan A was discounted along time ago.

    Yet the share issue, meetings/displays/comments sessions, and months of internet forum debate with ever more entrenched views from both sides of the argument went on due to the publication of plans which had, if we are to believe this latest information, representations of the proposed building works which were known to be of a plan that had been rejected months previously. Honestly you just couldnt make it up - maybe theres a tv programme in thsis osmewhere down the line.

    There are two possible scenrios here,

    One, this latest information is true - that plan had was rejected around 12months ago. If so then what have the railway management been doing during the share issue launch, subsequent displays and discussions (to which the GM stated that there was 70% support for the plans - plans which if this scenario is correct had already been dismised), general outcry over various internet forums as to the suitability of these plans, the going public by the plan B group, and so on. If this is the case the question must be asked why the railway management has let things go on for so long without a clear and definitive statement, if such a statement had been made then much of the debate and soul searching by some brave disenters would have been avoided in one go.

    The second scenario - that this latest information is untrue and that plan A has been a go-er all along, until that is is the interventions of the plan B group, GFG, and (I believe) a significant backlash from the membership. Then the question must be asked as to why these latest postings have been made, in this scenario then they would smack of a desire to comit virtual hari-kiri by the poster - a desire that most would see as a strange course of action when the poster could surely just have kept quiet.

    As there has been too much silence surrounding the project from the railway since this storm kicked off back in October, voids inevitably immediately filled by keyboard warriors (such as I) in this day and age, I dont expect any clarifying statement soon. But when, or if, there is such a statement then it will make intersting reading for sure.

    Interesting developments, interesting times, the story isnt dead by a long way - unfortunatley.
     
  7. louis.pole

    louis.pole New Member

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    It gets worse. According to Roger Smith (former member of the gang of three that acted as GM whilst the post was vacant and current WLA Chairman) at Western Locomotive Association Forum • View topic - Update from the Chairman - March 2013 "................. The next priority is the construction of a new building on the South side of Bridgnorth Station which will allow for a new buffet and shop, followed by a new building on the North side of the Station for a new administration office and reception area. Also to be constructed is a new footbridge which will link Platforms 1 & 2 with tower lifts. A link to the front of the shed for a viewing gallery is also planned with a further link to the overflow car-park. A further plan is to provide new volunteer accommodation with the construction of a new building on the present WLA & P.Way site, although this will depend on whether or not a deal can be reached with the owner of the old VW Garage. Should this site be purchased or rented by the SVR then the WLA & P.Way site will be left unchanged........................." All very curious and leads one to ask if the left hand knows what the right is doing.
     
  8. Kje7812

    Kje7812 Part of the furniture

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    I think we all know that answer...
     
  9. Lingus

    Lingus New Member

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    I notice great reserve from Tigger both here and at the other place since the latest revelations. Why has such a plot been created that is now unraveling in such a messy manner?
     
  10. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    Now did not someone write "Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practice to deceive" and how apt is it
     
  11. gios

    gios Member

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    Plan A was NEVER going to happen. Not only was it a totally unacceptable plan for a Heritage Railway, unacceptable to the vast majority of stakeholders, was growing like topsy and with the absence of a financial plan. A fantasy created in the imagination of someone. To have proceeded would have proved impossible. We should all be thankful for that and to the 'awkward squad' for having the courage of their convictions. This whole sorry saga could have been avoided at several points, by several groups of responsible people, very early on had they had either the courage or commitment to stand up. That they chose not to is to be regretted, but is now history.

    Where are we now ? Shareholders and members have only a somewhat confused idea at best, and given the latest relevations I doubt they will have much confidence until such time as an official announcement is made by the Board. Today's meeting with members who submitted plan B gives some hope that progress can be made in both the design and financial planning aspects.

    In view of past mistakes it is to be hoped that a rather detailed official announcement of the proposed way forward is forthcoming - in the next few days. Leaving everything until the AGM would be a grave error, giving those concerned about the history and sustainable future of SVR very little time to consider constructive comment.

    That the waters have been a little disturbed by recent events at the other place and in SR, should not distract from the fact that progress appears to being made.

    I am sure everybody, and I mean everybody, wants only the best for the SVR, and we can all look forward to the new proposals and a co-operative and productive future.
     
  12. geekfindergeneral

    geekfindergeneral Member

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    Gios has just read the Last Rites over Project Xanadu and I think his Crystal Ball is operating particularly well. It still has its paid enthusiasts and they need to be watched as you would with any cornered rat, but events have permanently isolated them and the terrible publicity has stripped them of their credibility. I cannot see any mechanism available to them now that could restore confidence - apart from their abolition in favour of a Heritage Conservation Committee with a strong Plan B culture. and an eye on costs That will almost certainly happen this summer.If it does not, the Holdings Directors may as well turn up for the AGM on 15 June dressed as clowns.

    Of course there is still a need to grow Bridgnorth originating traffic; at the moment the “Kidderminster Steam Train Ride” sells 110,000ordinary tickets a year (plus 30,000 Santas) while the “Bridgnorth Steam Train Ride”sells just 60,000 and yet both offer identical products at identical prices. To achieve financial sustainability SVR needs 50,000 more passengers a year, and it doesn’t matter which end it comes into. SVR is a double-ended railway - there will always be locos and carriages at both ends in the morning so balancing originating traffic makes sense if you can do it. You know you can do 250,000 pax on the existing infrastructure and cost base, because you already have.

    Kidderminster derives the lion’s share of total traffic simply because it has a big car park, and is easily accessible from Birmingham and the conurbation. That was one of the major drivers for going there in 1984 –Bewdley car park capacity was a pinchpoint that froze sales at around 180,000. The National Rail connection was nice and prestigious but for money you could take to the bank, the car park was the big sexy incentive. History has born that out absolutely.

    Originating traffic from Bridgnorth can grow – a lot. If over 200 traffic days it could sell 250 extra tickets per day, just one trainload, the railway is in as close to financial heaven as any steam railway could be. All your most pressing problems would go away.

    You will not get that sort of growth by building castles in the air. No-one comes just because you have a shiny thing – the steam trains and the atmosphere are the whole point. They will come if they can park. And for Bridgnorth they will come from the UNESCO site 8 miles up the road, which sees 600,000 visitors a year, half of whom are staying overnight – and ALL of whomhave an interest in heritage and history. Selling the SVR to them is as easy as selling a lifebelt to a drowning man – you would ride for free on the back of the Ironbridge UNESCO listing. Since no-one is going to put the railway back anytime soon (although they will one day, the Ironbridge tourism honeypot is the one big structural market change for SVR since 1970) you need to fix the car parking problem.

    250 people need 100 extra parking spaces. The Inchcape siteis no good – you could only squeeze about 50 cars in there at best, so at £80k per annum rent you would be subsidising every car passenger. But there are 600 spaces in the town that allow more than 4 hrs parking, and they are free on Sundays and bank holidays, £3 the rest of the time. There is a new 250 space Park & Ride car park at Ironbridge too, and a connecting network of minibuses that could be extended to Bridgnorth with a 20 minute journey time.

    The train ticket revenue for 50,000 new passengers would be an extra £500,000 a year. You can have that without the ghastly and financially ruinous Shiny Thing. You don’t need millions of pounds from Shareholders and grant providers who don’t trust you any more.

    You need a proper car park.

    Neil
     
  13. tigger

    tigger New Member

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    Meeting between the SVR Holdings Representatives, Bridgnorth Project Leader and the Plan B Team on 6th March 2013
    The purpose of the meeting was to share ideas and concerns about the proposed development at Bridgnorth and, as stated in the noticeboard issue of 18th February, to explore how the project can be moved forward by working together as a team.

    The meeting was conducted in a very constructive way and each person around the table was able to express his own ideas about the way forward. There was unanimous agreement about many of the discussion points, starting with the wider view of conservation within the railway as a whole and then coming back to the Bridgnorth project:

    1. There is a commitment by all parties to set up a Conservation and Heritage Committee as soon as possible and to obtain Holdings Board ratification on March 19th. This Committee will be charged with overseeing and advising on conservation and heritage aspects of all projects dealing with the built environment.

    2. There is an urgent need to produce a Conservation Plan for the whole railway by which new projects can be assessed

    3. There is a need to conduct a survey of the whole railway to identify areas where the heritage image could be improved.

    4. This is all done to re-establish the core values of what the SVR stands for in terms of heritage, preservation and history

    5. The Bridgnorth project should be looked at within the context of the railway as a whole. Work should now be undertaken to re-assess the needs of that location and develop an updated project brief, to ensure that any proposals are related to that defined need, to prepare a business plan to prove that any development is sustainable, and to look at the availability of finance to support this project.

    6. The design of any new works should be compatible with the existing environment and use principles and details that would have been used by the railway companies of the period at that location

    7. The meeting recognised the invaluable input that the volunteer workforce makes to the railway. In particular it recognised that the skills of SVR volunteers, including those who attended this meeting, are such as to enable a scheme to be delivered that would be appropriate, and which would address most of the criticisms that have been aired recently.

    The Board meeting of the 19th February stated that the presentation of the plans for Bridgnorth would be shown to the Plan B team first and then released to SVRlive. However, such progress has been made since that Board meeting, and bearing in mind the points listed above, that it was considered that there was now no value in releasing information that was already out of date. It was therefore decided that further work would be undertaken by this group on the way forward with the Bridgnorth development. A new joint presentation will now be prepared which will reflect the latest position and which the group will then release for further consultation.

    The meeting largely dealt with strategic level ideas and concerns. Matters of detail were purposely not addressed until the matters of strategy had been discussed. It was agreed that a further meeting should be held to continue the discussion and examine some of the more detailed issues relating to conservation and the Bridgnorth project in particular. This meeting has been scheduled for 27th March, where hopefully the momentum which has been started by this important and constructive meeting can be continued.

    David Postle
    Chairman

    Nick Paul, Mike Ball, Nick Ralls, Paul Taylor
    Severn Valley Holdings Company representatives

    Ian Baxter, Bob Marrows, Kevin Simpson, Ced Jameson, David Redfern
    Plan B team
     
  14. gios

    gios Member

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    No one could complain about the content of Tiggers early press release, and the significance of those in attendance. That the SVR is to have a new Conservation and Heritage Committee for the built environment, in the very near future, is very significant and excellent news. The icing on the cake is that there will be a business plan associated with the proposals.
     
  15. Lingus

    Lingus New Member

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    Doesn't this massive turn around leave David Williams somewhat isolated by his recent item in HR? Why have Nick Paul, Mike Ball, Nick Ralls, Paul Taylor and the rest of the Holdings board paid attention to a small number of rabble-rousers?
    Perhaps he is to be selected as the one to carry the can for this whole debacle and feel the kiss of Madame Guillotine.
     
  16. zigzag

    zigzag New Member

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    Welcome as developments are I still feel that all this should have been done long before the share issue was launched. If it had been done properly from the outset then we could be looking at a much greater share sale than the current c£1.2m that it has effectively stalled at.
     
  17. geekfindergeneral

    geekfindergeneral Member

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    Every SVR stakeholder – shareholder, working member,armchair member, employee, or trader in the rail corridor who benefits from thetrains being there - has reason to be enduringly and profoundly grateful to David Postle and the Plan B team for their determination to prevent the railway walking into bankruptcy with its eyes wide shut. Although it pains me to say it, we should be grateful also that some Holdings Directors were open to argument and appear to have mended their ways. That could not have been easy or comfortable for them.

    I don’t think David Williams will be or should be beheaded for his comments. He is just very old, and the workings of the internet and social media are a total mystery to him, but that does not make him one of the “baddies”. Keen-eyed observers of Madame Guillotineand her attendant tumbrils will notice that the Holdings Director who championed the Bridgnorth Project from its inception was not at the crucial meeting that ended it, nor a signatory to the list of undertakings. If you want a candidate for a patsy to lay down his life so that his Chairman and General Manager may live, that is where you might start looking. Life is rarely fair.

    There will be one more round of pain, when the full wasted costs of this Glass Folly debacle emerge. At that point some may decide that one head just isn’t enough. But for now, let us just be thankful that we will not be watching SVR destroy itself on HLF “largesse”, weak management, and enormous consultancy bills.

    On a personal note I would thank all those who lent their proxy to the EGM call, and to Nat Pres itself for running with a thread that has not always been what people have come to expect of our hobby.

    Neil
     
  18. louis.pole

    louis.pole New Member

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    When the true costs of this unhappy episode emerge I think the membership etc. will want at least one head, maybe more. I agree with the three you have narrowed it down to Neil but there are others that also need to be shamed. It is for the membership and shareholders to decide how best for the SVR to purge itself. That can wait until AGM. It is of interest that one of the original projects most avid proponents (and a very active Internet poster) will be spared as they do not hold a position of great authority, yet any credibility they had is now badly tarnished. The late change from running with the hare to hunting with the hounds may have diverted attention from the director you refer to for now but those with an attention span greater than a goldfish may yet come calling for vengeance.
     
  19. Lingus

    Lingus New Member

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  20. guard_jamie

    guard_jamie Part of the furniture

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    I would be very surprised if anyone could find bad words to say of a plan to ensure the survival of skills in the heritage industry. But this is Natpres, so I'm expecting something any moment...
     

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