Should the T3 be Steamed Poll

Not at present, although I understand there are aspirations.

Incidentally, last year I bumped into an erstwhile fireman on the Guildford to Horsham line who claimed the system "never worked" although presumably this was towards the end.

PH

 

Would be an interesting addition to IoWSR operations and an equally interesting comparison with the GWR auto trains.

 

Actually they would not be quite right for W11 ran for longer in the I.O.W. than any O2. Pictures exist from the inter war years of W8 & W11 in charge of push pull set 484 which is the one which survives and, apart from various narrow gauge lines, is something which is unlikely to be replicated elsewhere.

Somehow, I suspect the S.R. would not have envisaged its use for Royal Trains either!

PH

 

How do you mean "unlikely to be replicated elsewhere"? I've been push-pull at the GCR and Llangollen with GWR Autocoaches.

 

Highly unlikely that it would be possible to pair individual identifiable carriages with individual identifiable locomotives on a present day standard gauge steam railway to reproduce views in eighty year old photographs.

PH

 

Ok - thanks for clarification

 

Just need to reopen Ventnor West to complete the scene.

 

Harry Wilmott (I.W.C.R. Chairman) called it a "worthless railway" in 1919. Even today the area it serves is the back of beyond. The only surprise is that when the S.R. concocted the two push-pull sets to facilitate conductor/guard working, they provided things with such sumptuous interiors.
(Apologies for my part in the thread drift)

P.H.

 

In addition to cost, some relevant questions before reaching a decision would include:

1. How useful would this engine be as part of the host railway's working fleet? E.g. is it powerful enough to pull a normal train and keep time?
2. Is rolling stock from the right period available to make a historically correct train for the T3?
3. If the answers to (1) and (2) are not satisfactory, are there other grounds for steaming it, e.g. would this generate a lot of extra visitors who would make special visits to see it in steam, or pay for photo charters?

Alternatively:
4. If the engine is not steamed, does the host railway have a good museum where the public (and enthusiasts) could enjoy the locomotive as a cosmetically restored static exhibit?

All these and other questions ought to be weighed up before reaching a decision (and I expect the Swanage are well aware of that!).

 

For the answer to Question 1, see post #292 on this thread with an account of a similar class (an X2) stepping in to work the 13-coach Atlantic Coast Express from Woking to Salisbury in the 1930s. 563 would have no problems working a regular service train. Adams 4-4-0s were pretty sure-footed by all accounts.
As for Question 2, how few heritage lines go for historically correct looking trains? I enjoyed the pairing of S15 847 with some green-liveried SR coaches at the Bluebell recently during the FS visit because this fine engine, painted in SR Maunsell livery, often finds itself hauling BR-built Mk 1 stock. Look also at the main line scene. Back in the 1980s, the carriages were Mk 1s in BR two-tone blue which hardly matched anything. No one seemed to mind when Midland 1000 and LMS liveried Leander were up front! Even now, 6201 (Lizzie) is painted in LMS maroon and it's in the owning group's constitution that it must stay in this livery, but apart from a visit to the SVR, how often does it find itself hauling historically correct coaches? Then there's GWR-liveried 2807 on the GWSR. These are just a few random examples An LSWR-liveried No. 563 hauling green Mk 1s will just be another mismatched train which doesn't seem to bother Joe public.
Question 3: Steaming it could possibly bring in extra visitors if it is marketed as the Swanage Railway's flagship, but I can't think it will be in demand for photo charters without something from a matching period to be paired up with.
Question 4: The answer appears to be "not yet", but let's wait and see what plans the Swanage Railway has up its sleeve.

 

Longer in service is not quite the same as the 'later in service' claimed by @John Petley, which is entirely correct, given that the last Terriers left the island eighteen years before W24 did her final work for BR there. Regarding the push-pull gear, it can't have been entirely awful throughout it's history, or the SR would not have extended its use over the whole system, after the Drummond system caused some near-misses on the Western section. After all, one non-working system is just as good as another, regardless of the theoretical technical merits. I have never actually found a good description of how the regulator control worked, beyond the basics (three pipes, compressed air, etc) but I can easily believe it would have been susceptible to poor maintenance. I also suspect a steam reverser in good condition would have made it considerably more appealing to use on the bigger engines, since the fireman would have been able to control the reverser without worrying about the regulator setting.

 

The final livery carried was Maunsell green but Bulleid sunshine lettering.

In its previous Maunsell livery, 563 was notable for carrying the tender numbers (both on the sides and the back) in large LB&SCR block-shaded numerals, no doubt left over transfers being used up.

Tom

 

Are there any engines currently in this livery( Maunsell olive with sunshine lettering)?

 

Lots of things here. A lot of this depends upon the age of the person recollecting, very much as Steam Beano's "Glorious Years" are more truthfully "When I were a lad" rather than any period of particular excellence. The longest serving I.O.W. motive power were the I.W.R. Beyer Peacocks, one of which managed nearly 70 years. All three are characteristic I.O.W.types of their time and there is the prospect of their being joined by a fourth, the E.1

As for the air controlled push-pull gear, my informant told me that the locomotive inspectors gave particular attention to the firemen who would have to manipulate the controls in response to the bell signals from the trailer coach. Sadly I just don't know whether this was a problem that came about as the equipment aged or whether it always "never worked", forcing the staff just to get on with it. Either is possible.

PH

 

Even if Push Pull gear was working, the fireman would be on their own half the time on a push pull set so clearly needed to be able to work alone.

 

Get it done, get the 4x LSWR 6-wheelers included in the project and enjoy the sight of an authentic train running on the line it would of once operated along. Joined by the M7 and the push-pull pair, whilst 1x of SLL locos hauls a rake of Bulleids - that's one hell of a Southern Weekend showing the development of Southern steam not purely through the locomotives but the coaches themselves too!

 

Would take rather a long time alas. Hope we all live long enough! Getting into the realms of W.I.B.N. I fear.

PH

 

563 + 4x LSWR 6-wheelers sounds a lot like a good lottery proposal to me....


Keith

 

No, just approaching the level of authenticity you often say is lacking on heritage railways. I would say lil bear's post is more of a long term aspiration for the Swanage than a simple WIBN.
If the heritage sector didn't take on projects that would "take rather a long time" then not much would have been achieved from the outset.

 

Best stick to those lovely Mk1s you're fond of Paul...

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