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Smoke Deflectors

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by domeyhead, Oct 16, 2017.

  1. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    As an aside one read Mr Powells book recently in which he suggests the Rebuilt Scot / Jubilee / Patriot smoke deflectors were nice looking but not particularly effective - it doesn't take a genius to see why.
     
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  2. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Well-Known Member

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    On the LMS the shape of the smoke deflectors mirrored that of the firebox: the Original Scots and Baby Scots had vertical firebox sides and the deflectors followed suit (after some experimentation with the top edge); the Pacifics had sloping firebox sides and so did the deflectors. The Scots and their sisters had the double bend to the firebox sides, and this was reflected in their smoke deflectors.

    Smoke deflectors were not fitted on a whim but to answer a need. The Parallel boilered Scots in particular went through several experiments for smoke lifting before settling on the side deflectors actually fitted. The Big Lizzies, like their earlier sisters, didn't need them in single chimney form, but did so once the double chimneys were fitted.

    As to the Big Lizzies' appearance with and without, it's all down to the individual, but it is true that their appearance was very much altered once they were added.
     
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  3. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

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    The Irish versions of the Maunsell moguls never received smoke deflectors. The only Irish locos I'm aware of which did were the GNRI VS class 4-4-0's (the later and unfortunately extinct 'simple' version of surviving V class compound No.85 'Merlin'), plus one solitary GSR '400' class 4-6-0 (No.409).

    BFB wheels aside, I always think the rebuilt Bulleid pacifics, especially the MNs, look decidedly LMS-ish when shorn of their deflectors. Must be that humongous firebox!
     
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  4. 240P15

    240P15 Member

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    Was the LNER A3 class the only to be equipped with Witte smoke deflectors in the UK?
     
  5. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    So this would be for aesthetic reasons rather than effectiveness ?
     
  6. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Well-Known Member

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    Yes.
     
  7. jsm8b

    jsm8b Active Member

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    Any idea why 46106 retained the straight deflectors ?
     
  8. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that was the point: they worked! The point was, why did the others retain the pretty but useless ones!
     
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  9. sir gilbert claughton

    sir gilbert claughton Member

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    nope 46202 had a single chimney and no smoke deflectors
    46106 had Brit style deflectors
    the unrebuilt Patriots had single chimney and deflectors ,but not in their early days ,as did the unrebuilt Scots

    Those fitted to 71000 don't seem to do much . there is often a pall of smoke round the chimney. how would it look with blinkers ???
     
  10. sir gilbert claughton

    sir gilbert claughton Member

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    I don't think it "retained "them . Cox , I think did some work on deflectors ,using 46106. the straight ones worked and she kept them - as that was as far as it went !
     
  11. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Well-Known Member

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    The Scots and Baby Scots had a very bluff front end and smoke interference was a problem on the Scots, at least. Smoke around the chimney isn't a problem; it's smoke down the sides of the boiler restricting the driver's view that is.
     
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  12. 46203

    46203 Member

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  13. 22A

    22A Active Member

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    Looking at the Britannia class; some had deflectors with a hand rail fitted, others had deflectors with hand grips cut into them. Was one version more effective or user friendly than the other?
     
  14. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Well-Known Member

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    They all originally had handrails. A big boiler is difficult to see past, and deflectors don't help, especially with a vertical handrail also blocking the view. This was thought to be a contributory factor in the Milton derailment 20 November 1955 (http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/MoT_Milton1955.pdf) and orders were given to remove them. The WR cut many rectangular holes bordered with brass(!) while everyone else used two circular cut-outs with a crossbar. Not all Brits had the handrails removed.
     
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  15. Johnb

    Johnb Part of the furniture

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    It always seemed odd to me that no one thought of doing the same thing with the 9Fs.
     
  16. sir gilbert claughton

    sir gilbert claughton Member

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    I didn't know that
     
  17. Tim Light

    Tim Light Active Member

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    Anyone know the story behind this? Did it run in service with a double chimney?
    x0815.JPG
     
  18. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Well-Known Member

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    It was an oddity, and ran only for testing. The inside cylinders exhausted to the front blast pipe and outside cylinders to the rear. The Lizzies (6200 / 01) at first were not brilliant steamers and this certainly didn't help, and didn't last long.
     
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  19. Lplus

    Lplus Well-Known Member

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    Yes, sadly. I think they would look better than the running plate based deflectors on a lot of locos.
     
  20. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. Bredin's 800 class 4-6-0 (1939) on the GSR had a similar arrangement. Clements & McMahon remark ("Locomotives of the GSR" pub.Colourpoint 2008)......

    "Class 800 was provided with twin blast pipes and a double chimney where the inside cylinder exhausted through the forward chimney and the outside cylinders through the rear chimney. This unique arrangement has been described as a curiosity whose purpose was unclear. The explanation was most likely quite simple - there were very few double chimneys in use anywhere at the time, so this layout might then have seemed as logical as any other. This feature nonetheless made the class* distincive as being the first in these islands to have been exclusively fitted with double chimneys from new."

    Clearly this arrangement was less than 100% successful, as No.802 carried a single chimney between 1949 and 1951 and No.801 from 1954 until withdrawn in 1957. In their final years, Nos.800 &802 were fitted with more conventional blast pipe arrangements.

    * All three of them!

     
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