So, why exactly did....................

All down to the Conservatives. Ernest Marples Minister of Transport introduced the Transport Act 1962
which dissolved the British Transport Commission (BTC) which had overseen the railways, canals and road
freight transport and that act established the British Railways Board, it also put in place measures which simplified the process of closing the railways.

It may not be entirely a coincidence that as Beeching was closing railway lines,the government was providing funding for the construction of motorways, which were being built by companies in which Marples had an interest.

Dave B

 

And he didn't even try to cover it up, Marples Ridgeway was the name of the main contractor for motorway construction I think

 

His Wikipedia entry makes interesting reading, especially the from 1975 when he fled to Monaco and why.

Dave B

 

Quickly on the EE type 4s (Class 40s) were they not first tried out on the East coast main line but the ER general manager decided they were not good enough to replace a Gresley or Peppercorn Pacific so he ordered the Deltics instead and palmed the type 4s off onto the LMR?

 

I can't remember the equivalent of The 15 Guinea special day in West Germany, I think most steam enthusiasts just turned their attention to the East where steam lasted for a few more years and the authorities there became more relaxed towards visitors who were spending money in their broke economy. A bit different to when I went to East Berlin in 1970 where my copy of Railway World was confiscated at the border check point, can't have any subversive western literature coming into the country!

 

Deleted

 

Taken from Wikipedia :
British Railways originally ordered ten Class 40s, then known as "English Electric Type 4s", as evaluation prototypes.[2] They were built at the Vulcan Foundry in Newton-le-Willows, Lancashire.[3] The first locomotive, D200, was delivered to Stratford on 14 March 1958. Following fitter and crew training, D200 made its passenger début on an express train from London Liverpool Street to Norwich on 18 April 1958.[1] Five of the prototypes, Nos. D200, D202-D205, were trialled on similar services on the former Great Eastern routes, whilst the remaining five, Nos. D201, D206-D209, worked on Great Northern services on the East Coast Main Line.

Sir Brian Robertson, chairman of the British Transport Commission, was less than impressed, believing that the locomotives lacked the power to maintain heavy trains at high speed and were too expensive to run in multiple – opinions that were later proved to be correct. Airing his views at the regional boards prompted others to break cover and it was agreed that later orders would be uprated to 2500 hp (a change that was never applied). Direct comparisons on the Great Eastern Main Line showed they offered little advantage over the "Britannia" class steam locomotives, when driven well, and the Eastern Region declined to accept further machines as they deemed them unsuitable to replace the Pacific steam locomotives on the East Coast Main Line[4] preferring to hold on until the "Deltic" Class 55 diesels were delivered.

The London Midland Region was only too pleased as the Eastern Region's decision released additional locomotives to replace their ageing steam fleet, Class 40s managing Camden bank, just north of Euston, with apparent ease. The West Coast Main Line had been starved of investment for many years and the poor track and general lower speeds (when compared to the East Coast route) suited Class 40 as the need to hold trains at speed for long periods simply did not exist and it better exploited their fairly rapid acceleration.


Dave B

 

Marples was possibly the most sleazy and bent politician of all time. When he was made minister of transport, it was picked up that he was part owner of a road construction firm so he was instructed to dispose of his shares in it. He did this - to his wife. He got the contract for the M1 which he deliberately built 2 lane, knowing that 3 lanes were needed, so he could give himself another contract to widen it.

He was involved in a property scam too with the slum landlord, Rachman. When he knew that a property was going to be compulsorily purchased for a road scheme, he would tip Rachman off who would buy it cheap, then get more than he paid for it back under the compulsory purchase, splitting it with Marples.

Finally, he was, allegedly, the "man in the mask" At the time of the Profumo affair, Stephen Ward used to organise, er parties, of a somewhat adult nature and a character known as the man in the mask would serve the drinks, in just a full face mask and frilly apron. He was never positively identified but Marples was very strongly felt to be him.

He had to do a runner in the 70s because customs and excise were on to his many fiddles.

And this sleazeball was in charge of our transport infrastructure....

 

In that case then, surely it would have made more sense to hang on to the Duchesses and Princesses until electrification to Crewe/Manchester/Liverpool was completed in 1966?

The class 50s were then brought in to displace steam on the section over Shap after electrification

 

I well recall the changeover at Rheine when the 012s were replaced by diesel traction on passenger services. On the Saturday steam operation as normal then overnight diesels transferred in and all 012s immediately stored on depot; the only exception was 012.063 which was used on the depot's staff outing to Emden because the organisers demanded that it be hauled by a Class 012 and 063 was the last locomotive to return to depot.

 

East Germany still had steam after the 'Wall came down', so early 1990s and narrow gauge a bit longer and still running daily under 'private'(subsidised) ownership (I hope - that is where I am heading now!)

Steven

 

Not quite; the Class 50s were used to maintain electric timings (as far as possible) north of Crewe from 1970 (by using pairs of them on the major expresses) until full electrification was completed to Glasgow with the intent that they transfer to the WR to replace Class 52 on passenger services. My first sighting of a WR Class 50 was 50001 on crew training at Acton in April 1974 and subsequent transfers took place as electrification extended northwards on the WCML.

 

Yes we had a good run up to Christmas and my pilot son was hired to follow one of the specials in the autogyro and by drone. Some nice pictures from that trip. The best one was a 40Euro return fare with 8 course lunch stop with wine inlcuded... Sold out in minutes.... In December we had one special a week through our local station (Trofarello). Things do seem to be picking up but there are two major issues. The costs that FS charges for running steam (which if it is an FS trip are heavily reduced) and the lack or people to pay premium fares for steam. For Joe Pubic if you usually spend 8 Euros for the trip that the steam special will do why would you pay 100 to go by steam?

 

Yes the transfer between FS and the Fondazione are going well and are quite simple as they are in essence the same so it's an 'internal' sale. As an outsider it's a nightmare to buy but there are ways.. The musuems are doing well with 'donations'. Many depots are having clearouts and the stuff that is coming out can be very useful!

 

But that's because the Germans learned from Switzerland that a well run tourist railway attracts tourists - and tourists bring money that creates employment. For a classic line try - note that lines such as the KWVR; SVR and WSR have similar local support that attracts visitors with benefits to their local communities.

 

I am thinking that Europe had greater access to cheap hydro-electric power than the UK. This would have lead to early electrification of the more energy-intensive routes.

Therefore in later years there would have been less of an incentive to displace steam from the non-electrified lines.

Does this make sense?

 

There were few EE Type 4 turns on the ECML from what I remember from my spotting days. The Highwayman being one. http://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8069&start=15

 

There are some massive variations in fares over there at the moment. €20 for a two hour trip with a 940 2-8-2T on two coaches last month (which seems to have run with about 8 coaches!), to €80 for another tour last year which got cancelled. €40 seems to be about the average though, sometimes including lunch as you say. Couple of hours on the train, few hours for lunch, couple of hours back again. A much more pleasant way of doing things, rather than the 18 hour marathons over here!

 

The Highwayman was to BR what Megabus is to National Express coach travel IIRC working from Finsbury Park to Sunderland - cheap no frills travel ! In fairness Class 40s were used on many ECML services until the availability of Class 46 - and later Class 47s - saw them demoted to secondary passenger services and freight duties.