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Società Veneta Ferrovie.

Discussion in 'International Heritage Railways/Tramways' started by Saint, Jul 4, 2017.

  1. John Baritone

    John Baritone New Member

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    Buon pomeriggio, Gian Uberto,

    as nobody else appears to have answered your question, this information may help.

    The reason that some rolling stock and locos were barred from running between Tonbridge and West St Leonards goes back to the time when that line was built (1851 - 1853). The contractors who dug the tunnels did not do the job in accordance with the contract, as they dug the tunnels too small, and could then not fit in as many layers of bricks as they should have done. After a few years, the tunnels showed signs of starting to collapse, so the South Eastern Railway were forced to add additional layers of bricks, which reduced the diameter of the tunnels, and the loading gauge. For this reason, rolling stock on this line had to be narrower than standard.

    This led to the development of the 'Schools' Class locomotives, designed by Richard Maunsell, and built by the Southern Railway from 1930 - 1935, and which were the most powerful 4-4-0 locos ever built in Europe. They used a round-topped firebox (the same as used on the Southern Railway's 'King Arthur' Class locos), and had three cylinders; these two features meant they could fit into the restricted loading gauge of the tunnels on the Hastings line.

    When the 'Schools' were replaced in the 1950s, the Diesel Electric Multiple Units (DEMUs) which replaced them also had to be specially built to the restricted loading gauge - and those restrictions were not finally lifted until 1987 (when the line was electrified). Part of the upgrade of the line involved slewing the tracks inwards through the tunnels (which meant that standard width stock could be used), and changing the signalling system so that only one train was allowed inside each of the tunnels at one time. In a sense, traffic through the tunnels was managed almost as though it was a single track section.

    So if the PLM van in York is meant to be shown as it was in the early fifties, it should still have the restrictions regarding the Hastings line. Unfortunately, I can't help you as regards the Whitstable Harbour Branch, as I know nothing about that one.

    Distinti saluti,

    John
     
  2. Saint

    Saint Member

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    This information is the most helpful! Thank you.
     
  3. John Baritone

    John Baritone New Member

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    Felice di aiutarti, Gian Uberto!
     
  4. Saint

    Saint Member

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    Grazie!

    I was a bit in a hurry before, so a few more words. We found (Facebook group "Unofficial Bluebell Page") a picture of a sibling of our Fb van (or a picture of the van itself, we should try to read the van number in the picture) and it had not such restriction sign, but the van was not leased to a British railway company. So the SVF fellows will choose if paint the sign or not.

    Adding the sign could help adding some "extra gossip" to the guide speech to the visitors of our premises :)
     
  5. John Baritone

    John Baritone New Member

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    Gian Uberto, I have just found some additional information which may be of interest, regarding the Whitstable Harbour Branch. This comes from two letters written to the newspaper, the 'Daily Telegraph', in 1928.

    Tyler Hill Tunnel was opened for traffic in May, 1832, on what was the Canterbury & Whitstable Railway, which was the second public railway opened in Britain - as it opened 5 months before the Liverpool & Manchester Railway, which eventually became the London & North Western Railway. According to local legend, Tyler Hill Tunnel was only dug so that the owners of the Canterbury & Whitstable Railway could have the first railway tunnel in the world - but whether or not that story is true I cannot say!

    In 1932, when the Tyler Hill Tunnel was built, the engineers of the C & W could have had no idea how railways would develop over the next 100 years, so it was bored to a very small diameter - and there was only one other tunnel in Britain built to this size, the Glenfield Tunnel, near Leicester. By the 1920s, when the Whitstable Harbour line was a branch of the Southern Railway, their standard rolling stock had to be reduced in height by 45 cms in order to avoid hitting the top of the tunnel - and this is clearly the reason why standard PLM vans were prohibited from the Branch.

    Distinti saluti,

    John
     
  6. Saint

    Saint Member

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    That's great! Very very interesting! Thank you very much, John!
     
  7. Saint

    Saint Member

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    Gentlemen, the Primolano Studios of SVF are glad to present you the international edition of “A sole a day...”. Enjoy.



    (Enjoy and donate, please)
     
  8. gwalkeriow

    gwalkeriow Well-Known Member

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    That is brilliant ! so original. :)
     
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  9. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    One of those wee beasties looks a damned sight more useful than any reconstructed Midget might be 'down your way' Gary! :D
     
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  10. gwalkeriow

    gwalkeriow Well-Known Member

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    I think I would rather have an 03 though :)
     
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  11. Saint

    Saint Member

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    The “Sole” (Sogliola in Italian) is what we have got :). A Badoni Built Breuer type IV with extra Westinghouse brake. It was a common sight in small stations in the sixties and seventies .
     
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  12. RLinkinS

    RLinkinS Member

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    The Whitstable harbour linitation would be as a result of the original Canterbury and Whitstable railway tunnel which had a low headroom. The last engines to work on it were the R and R1 classes which had to have cut down boiler mountings and cabs to allow them through. My Grandfather, who started his railway career at Canterbury West in 1918 or 19, said that some passenger coaches were cut down for the line. Unfortunately Ashford works forgot to allow for the ventilators on the roof; consequently they were knocked off on the first trip through the tunnel. Some of the cut down R1 locos were used on the Folkestone Harbour Branch
     
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  13. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    It looks a very suitable piece of kit, of which I was totally unaware before your post. It's got to be cheaper than sparking up even a small loco for the odd move here and there.
     
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  14. Saint

    Saint Member

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    Tank you very much! Even if we will not paint the restriction signs, all these info can enrich the description of the life of our wagon.
     
  15. Saint

    Saint Member

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    It was indeed. It has a truck engine supplied by FIAT (326N type?), that can be started either with an electrical starter or a crank. FS originally bought them with crank start only to save money, only to see that fuel was wasted by keeping the engine running idle not to use the crank again. Our engine - that was never FS (and might have been owned by Società Veneta - the old company our group is named after) was borne with electric starter, while the Westinghouse brakes (with the air tanks over the roof) might have been added "after sale" since it may have seen minor branch-line services. We will use it only in our yard, using it on the line could be a bureaucratic nightmare.

    I am almost sure that the Brauer one had another, Antonio Badoni firm was licensee by Brauer, the company that firs built it in Germany. Our engine is a "Mk IV", previous patterns were even more minimalistic, with "Mk I" being just a bogey with a diesel engine.

    The engine has two jacks (one on each side) that can help to "borrow" some weight from the shunted wagon.

    IF YOU LIKED THE VIDEOCLIP, PLEASE SHARE IT
    the diesel engine had some hidden "rotten easter eggs" that raised the cost of the restoration, and, like all the volunteer organizations, we run on donations and what the volunteers themselves can spare from their wages.

    Some more history:

    In WW II these little engines were all tractive powers available on the line to Tobruk.
    Some heavier engines, the 372 class, built with the engines of some Aln 772 railcars never reached the North Africa (General Montgomery arrived first) and were later sold to the private "Ferrovie Padane" railway. Below the 372 running on the FP line.

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. John Baritone

    John Baritone New Member

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    This had me laughing out loud!! Has Buster Keaton been reincarnated? The most effective appeal I have EVER seen, Gian Uberto - my donation is on its way!
     
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  17. Saint

    Saint Member

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    THANK YOU FROM SVF!
     
  18. Saint

    Saint Member

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    Yesterday evening I was a bit drowsy and had only my smartphone available, therefore my thanks, sorry, SVF thanks were overly concise.

    Thank you very much. Your compliments cheered up the team - we are by no means sad, but cheering up is always a good thing. And any and every donation is welcomed with gratitude, is a step forward full payment of the costs. Thank you very much again.

    And please, share the movie :)
     
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  19. Saint

    Saint Member

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    Small update:
    these are four carter cover for our Sogliola engine. The leftmost is the original one, the other 3 were built from scrap by SVF fellow Andrea Zanettin. Kudos!
    D64FCBAE-BE2E-4FE7-B5C0-CC8298C99D8C.jpeg
     
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  20. Saint

    Saint Member

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    I think I already told that Primolano railway station is almost larger than the village
    96E1D0DE-D131-485D-B8CE-682DA09AE6B7.jpeg
    The station is in the top center of the picture. The village is on the right side
     
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