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Steam Dreams, Settle and Carlisle - 09/04/22

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by sgthompson, Apr 8, 2022.

  1. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    If you restrict yourself to runs with only one person firing, what you're mainly assessing is the stamina of that person rather than the capability of the locomotive.
     
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  2. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Well-Known Member Friend

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    I timed the train on the approach shot (@nige757's vid) and, reassuringly for me, got 49mph as reported by @Bill2 - a very good speed!

    Whilst being aware of the easing south of Kirby Stephen, I wasn't sure where it starts (or ends) and don't know of any surviving gradient posts - someone may know? The published gradient profiles all agree on a short easing from 1/100r to 1/264r probably starting around MP266.50 (Signal Box) and extending south, but they lack the resolution to place it accurately. After a bit of searching on line I came across a copy of the original (1876) Midland Railway Profile. A couple of expanded prints, a bit of scaling, some judicious checks and alignment with the modern MPs produced a result. The easing starts around 50-70 yards south of the SB and lasts for around 600 yards (27 chains) - starts MP266,37ch and ends MP266,10ch. The southern end of the goods shed is MP266,34ch with the camera a little way to the south.

    Trawling back through my various GPS "tracks" confirmed that speeds are in line with an easing of gradient in this position. [A "track" stores the GPS recorder position at a specific point in time and its new position a fixed time later (a very accurate time later) and it does this again and again. The time interval is user selectable - typically 1, 2, 4 seconds or longer (I use 4 but intend to up my game to 2 seconds). Using suitable software will display all the points overlaid on a map together with the average speed between points. With this high resolution gradual changes in speed can be seen easily and the location of maximum (or minimum) speeds identified. Resolution - Travelling at 50mph a 4 second interval corresponds to 100 yards; 2 seconds would be 50 yards.] The typical speed gain is 1 to 2 mph with a maximum somewhere around MP266. All other things being the same, around a mile beyond the station the speed will have dropped back to its value through the platforms.

    Returning to Saturday's trip, I suspect that the speed of the train passing the camera was very little different to that through the station. Moving at 49/50mph means that the loco would pass the end of the easing less that 25 seconds after it passed the start. @Bill2 near the very back of the train would experience the start of the acceleration whilst still approaching the station buildings.

    Now, can I have some Easter egg?
     
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  3. Bill2

    Bill2 New Member

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    The list of Blue Riband runs took me back many years, and led me to search through old notebooks during the Easter holiday. I have found some additional entries, all starting from Appleby:

    Saturday 15/8/1992 60532; 12/436/450 17 min 43 sec.
    Sunday 13/9/1990 71000 13/483/510 18 min 23 sec
    Sunday 12/5/1991 46229 12/450/475 19 min 3 sec
    Saturday 25/8/1990 46229 12/450/475 19 min 25 sec

    Not sure where to draw the line. I also have notes of some other runs from various sources that are faster than the time I reported for 35018

    11/6/1994 60532; 12 17 min 50 sec
    8/5/1993 4498 12; 18 min 18 sec
    25/9/93 4498 12; 18 min 25 sec
     
  4. iancawthorne

    iancawthorne Well-Known Member

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    Useful information here Bill. I will do some cross referencing and probably add these into the web site.
     
  5. iancawthorne

    iancawthorne Well-Known Member

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    @Bill2 Those seven you have listed check out and they've been added to the table, many thanks. 13/9/90 with 71000 I think must have been 30/9/1990.

    Others may be interested in the top three known timings over the Blue Riband section:
    1. 30th May 1998 - 60007 + 60532 11/400/430 : 15 minutes 2 seconds (All time fastest)
    2. 1st January 1994 - 44767 +45596 12/447/477 : 15 minutes 13 seconds (All time fastest load 12+)
    3. 13th June 1964 (The Solway Ranger) - 35012 9/302/320 : 15 minutes 37 seconds (All time fastest known before 1968)
     
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  6. Bill2

    Bill2 New Member

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    Hello Ian, yes 30/9/90 is correct, sorry my mistake.
     
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  7. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Well-Known Member Friend

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    Another look at an excellent run.

    The speed through Kirkby Stephen was impressive and @Bill2 posted an excellent account of the day’s running. I decided to look on @iancawthornes most splendid repository for all S&C preserved steam [settlecarlislesteam.co.uk] for any runs by 35018 with similar speeds at KS. I found one, The Pendle Dalesman (08 June 2021); there was a graph of the performance compiled from information submitted by Sandy Smeaton.

    So, let battle commence. In the green corner, Steve Chipperfield with 35018+12 at the head of the Steam Dreams S&C trip [SD] and also in the green corner, Mick Kelly with 35018+11 heading WCRC’s Pendle Dalesman [PD] (08 June 2021). In addition to the disparity in the number of coaches there was another very significant difference, the PD stopped at Appleby whilst the SD ran straight through at 53.5 mph. The times from Carlisle to Appleby were both excellent and, allowing for the stop, very similar; SD 40:13 and PD 41:49 (per @Mick45303).

    [The graph of the PD run does display most of the speeds used in the following comparison, where the speed is not shown I have interpolated it from the graph and marked it with an asterisk. The SD train speeds (mph) appear first.]

    Appleby: 53.5/0

    MP275: not given (wisely?)/57.5

    Helm Tunnel: 58.5/50*

    Griseburn Viaduct: 50.5/46*

    Crosby Garrett: 56.5/55.1

    Smardale Viaduct: 60.5/60*

    Kirkby Stephen: 49-50/48.5-50

    Mallerstang (max): 45/52.5

    Aisgill: 37.5/42.5 rising to 44.5 at Summit Sign

    Times (MP275 to Summit Sign): 18:44/18:25

    The PD took 4:58 from Appleby to MP275 although the corresponding time is not given for the SD run, with an average speed likely to have been in the high 50s, it is probable that it was less than half this figure. As might be expected the PD (non-stop through Appleby) ran faster in the early part of the climb but by Smardale they were neck and neck, this continued through Kirkby Stephen. After KS the PD romped away – was the extra coach taking its toll or (perhaps more likely) was the SD train, now running 13E, eased?

    Two excellent times over the “Blue Riband” section and both would have made it into the “Top 20” but of course neither met the criteria to be included. [Minimum of 12 coaches and from a stop at Appleby – PD had 11 coaches and the SD did not stop]. Ah well, there's always next time . . and the one after . . . and the one after that!
     
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