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Steam engines available for traffic in 2014

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by geekfindergeneral, Mar 23, 2014.

  1. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Yer not looking in the right place - this is a kettle (or a coffee pot, anyway...)

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/doctorvee/6080850452/

    Tom
     
  2. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Nat Pres stalwart

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    No, you've all got it wrong, this is a coffee pot:

    [​IMG]

    :p
     
  3. RalphW

    RalphW Part of the furniture Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    I think GFG is being deliberately bloody minded with his constant use of the word kettle and has now ignored a polite request not to and several digs about it. If he ever thought that his next 'enlightening' post was being awaited with baited breath, he had better think again.
     
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  4. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Nat Pres stalwart

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    I certainly don't see a problem with kettles, it can be an affectionate term for a steam loco as well as a derogatory one, seeing as this is a thread about steam locos with input from people keen on steam locos, I'd imagine it was in the former context, not the latter.
     
  5. campainr

    campainr New Member

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  6. flaman

    flaman Well-Known Member

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    So nobody has much idea how many there are at present, nobody has any idea how many there will be in future and nobody really cares! Anyway, if we run short there's always diesels.:eek: Been an interesting thread, though!
     
  7. Corbs

    Corbs Member

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    I'm dumbfounded that people get offended by the term 'kettle' for a steam loco. It makes me want to say 'kettle' and 'box' (for diesels) even more.
     
  8. Robin

    Robin Well-Known Member

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    Historical data, at least for 10 years ago, can probably be done on a railway by railway basis, depending on the individual’s memory / habit of hoarding in-house magazines.

    I’ve had a look at what was happening 10 years ago on the Severn Valley, based on various motive power threads in the SVR forum. (E&OE, I wasn’t there in person).
    The core fleet in June 2004 was 8: 45110, 42968, 5164, 5764, 7714, 7802, 1501 (away for tyre turning), 46443 (for light duties). Main line fleet was 2 (34027, 60009) – I don’t know to what extent they were used on the SVR itself when not on the main line.

    For comparison purposes, the 2014 core fleet by high season will probably be 8: 1501, 2857, 4566, 7812, 34053, 43106, 7714 (fingers crossed) and 4936 or another hire engine. 1450 is also in service but probably only used for footplate experiences and specials. (All my personal opinions)


    Anybody else care to have a go?
     
  9. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    2/3rds true - we know how many Southern (28) and Western (45) locos are currently serviceable. We also know that both numbers represent roughly 1/3 of the total stock of preserved locos from those respective companies. What we don't know are the comparable figures for LMS, LNER, Standards, Austerities and Industrials. Anyone out there with access to the info?

    True-ish. I suspect collectively the forum could make a reasonable stab at what the loco fleets of many major lines might look like in, say, 1 year or 5 years (probably very risky beyond that). What we don't have is a collective view of that data; nor (seemingly) are there knowledgeable representatives on this forum who could give equivalent information for many other lines, especially smaller ones.

    Well, GFG clearly does! Actually, I think a number of us might be interested: if nothing else, it is always worth doing a bit of horizon scanning to see if really the momvement is about to enter a motive power crisis, or is just geting over one, or else its all too fragmented and localised to really say.

    We've been there before...

    Tom
     
  10. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Isn't it?
    :)
     
  11. Corbs

    Corbs Member

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    Anyway, train-racism aside, this is a very interesting discussion and one that has been touched on many times. I think that, as the preservation movement as a whole does include 'static' and 'living' museums as well as running railways (whether they market themselves as 'heritage' or 'tourist' centred), that locomotives on display shouldn't be overlooked when compiling lists such as these.
    As I and others mentioned on another thread, 'City of Birmingham' is doing a job in Think Tank museum. It's not ready for steam, but it is still serving a purpose that helps the preservation movement as a whole. Likewise, the KWVR and SVR (among others) store out-of-traffic locos in a museum, thereby making them 'exhibits' and not simply stored.
    In other words, they are still being useful.
    A loco doesn't even have to be in fine exterior condition to help in this way. The current plans to display ex-Barry wrecks just as they are, to help tell the story and show the work that goes in to Railway Preservation, means that these locos are serving a purpose.

    Paul and GFG's points about scrapping redundant stock are interesting, as displaying stock that isn't in traffic in this way, or using them for something (box vans for storage is a popular one), gives them a purpose and thus they are no longer surplus.

    Of course, there are the inevitable caveats. Manpower and money is still needed to maintain this fleet, but basic investment in facilities (such as covered storage) pays dividends in the longer term.
     
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  12. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    From memory, when I started at the Bluebell in 2006, the core fleet was:

    75027 (on its way out) 1638, 80151, 473, 9017, 65, 55, 672 - 3 big, 3 medium, 2 small, eight in total.

    Now it is 1638, 847, 263, 592, 178, 323, 55, 3 - still 8 in total, but now 2 big, 2 medium, 2 small, 2 "mascots". The shortfall is made up by engines on loan which aren't part of the core fleet.

    By early 2015, it is likely to be (usual caveats): 34059, 73082, 541, 847, 1638, 592, 263, B473, 323, 178, 55, 3 - 12 in total including 5 big, 3 medium, 2 small, 2 "mascots", and likely no engines on loan.

    Which is why I think the picture of whether we are entering a crisis, or leaving one, or something else is very fragmented. We will be in a much stronger position for motive power in 2015 than we were a decade before, but having been through a low point in between.

    Tom
     
  13. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    A tale that could be repeated for many lines.
     
  14. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

  15. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    Awful lot of work trying to work out how many locos were in service, that's the trouble. I woke up early and couldn't get back to sleep and I reckon it took me at least three hours to find reasonably recent web references to the GW fleet. To get a reasonable idea whether the number of working locos is increasing or decreasing you would need to map the in service periods for everything in service, under repair and out of service waiting repair. I fear a lot of loco sites don't mention them, or have the info well buried, and a good number of locos don't have their own pages at all. I just tried working out service periods for just the 45 class small Prairies as a sample and failed...
    I wonder though how many years you have to go back before the number of preserved locos that had *ever* been steamed is lower than the number active now.
     
  16. huochemi

    huochemi Well-Known Member Friend

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    Reminds me of a trip we did to Jalainur in China a few years ago. A short while previously, a Dutch enthusiast had put up a report which referred to SY1416 (which, unusually for an SY, had smoke deflectors) as "Flappy". One of our party did not think this was a very dignified nickname for a loco, so of course the rest of us went out of our way to refer to it as Flappy whenever we saw it. ;-)
     
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  17. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    Maybe the 1700 figure includes all the Facebook rebuilds
     
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  18. 21B

    21B Well-Known Member

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    I will have a "go" for the MHR. Usual caveats about future predictions of course.

    Future fleet (2018): 925; 92212; 41312; 76017; 30506; 34105; 35005; 75079
    Future fleet (2015): 850; 925; 45379; 34007; 92212; 41312; 76017; 30506 (end of yr)
    Current fleet: 31806; 850; 925; 45379; 34007; 92212
    2007 fleet: 73096; 34016; 35005; 92212; 41312
    2000 fleet (I think): 73096; 34016; 30506
     
  19. Steve

    Steve Part of the furniture Friend

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    I generally use the term 'Command Module'. That will fit any of steam, diesel or electric. Drivers are 'Command Module Captains' and firemen/second men are 'Command Module Operatives'. Been that way since the 70's and no one has ever complained about it.:)
     
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  20. flaman

    flaman Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure whether we would be much wiser if we had that information. I don't doubt that some lines, particularly the larger ones, try to plan their locomotive availability (though not always with much success), but on many railways it's a matter of chance. To illustrate this I will "have a go" with the steam fleet at Mangapps.
    Currently it consists of seven locos, six industrial and one main-line; one is a permanent static exhibit, one has been a static exhibit for 10 years and is likely to remain so for some time, two are under long-term restoration, one is likely to return to service within the next month (after 14 years out of service) one is likely to return to service this year and one is in service. The railway has only required one serviceable steam loco for the last ten years, but by the start of 2015 is likely to have three. Clearly, two will be surplus and will eventually move elsewhere. What about the others? Of the two long-term restorations, one is at a fairly advanced stage, but it's owner has bought a cl.31 diesel and is concentrating his efforts on that. The other is less well advanced and is unlikely to make much progress pending a start being made on the overhaul of one of the static exhibits. It's quite complicated and unpredictable, partly due to the circumstances and preferences of loco owners; in fact the only locos about whose status we can be fairly certain are the permanent static exhibit and the current runner (which has recently had a "10 year") and which are the only locos which actually belong to the railway.
    I'm not sure what one can extrapolate from this, except that on one small railway at least, there are likely to be three times as many serviceable locos by the end of 2014 as there were in 2013. In terms of the long-term future, it's worth remembering that all seven engines, including the static exhibits, are capable of being returned to running order should that become necessary.
     

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