Steam hauled tours and the fire risk.

Maybe they haven't got time etc to shunt the box around at Southampton. If they did, I wonder if it would have to be in front of the Arthur? I don't know the track, signalling for Soton UGL so can't really comment on that.

Hey. Just seen Cliff at Wimbledon on the TV. Didn't he make it rain an awful lot there once? Ended up singing to us all? With those gorgeous tennis girls in their short white skirts acting as backing singers? (drool). The dry spell could be coming to an end!!

 

Yes, but did they get their money back? At VSOE prices it's a lot of money to lose. Steam Dreams only offer a small refund if a diesel is substituted (and their conditions say nothing about a diesel being added behind the steam loco), presumably to reflect the fact that a diesel trip is cheaper to run. Railway Touring Company say nothing at all about this in their Ts and Cs - other than a general clause that says no refunds are given unless the train is cancelled.

 

Not blaming david. Just forwarding the information as it applies to the thread.

 

"Attached to REAR of train", "Used SPARINGLY", "Steam will be EXCLUSIVE POWER FOR 95% OF THE JOURNEY", Hmm?

 

My credentials as a 100% steam man are, I think well known.

But here we have what I feel is a force majeure situation.

An extraordinary situation that forces tour promoters to move away from their plans.

They are providing a steam loco at the front of the train, (at present anyway), but are forced by extreme weather conditions, (driest start to year for 80 years), to use a box for the majority of the motive power.

I feel that should anyone want to spend a lot of money and go to court over this it is my very humble opinion they would hear the words "force majeure" a good few times. As the lawyers sat smiling whilst getting richer and richer.

I don't like it one little bit. Especially as I am just getting back into timing UK, (mainly ex SR), steam again. But I feel the Tour Promoters have to do what they can to keep running trains where, as we have discussed here a good few times, the majority of their customers are probably quite happy still.

Most on the this Forum are forewarned now, so can take action re any trips they are not yet booked on. For trips already booked I think we are just going to have to grin and bear it, but some may ask their tour promoter for some recompense.

For others who do not know this is happening, I would very strongly suggest that tour promoters forced to accept a box as per the 5029 situation, put a note on their websites so prospective customers can make an informed decision when booking a trip.

Other than that, lets all perform the traditional English rain making ceremony.........anyone for cricket?


PS. I used the word "English" above, as after this afternoons tennis semi-final there is no need for us to continue being British until Wimbledon is over, seeing as that Scottish bloke got knocked out!

 

I think they do. My parents have been on a few of the trips. Sometimes at my expense as a Christmas present and thank you for looking after the kids. My father has an interest insteam by mother not really and they go in the expensive seats with meal etc. They like the fact it is steam hauled but admit once sat in the seats looking out of the window it is hard to tell. They also choose which trip they go on by destination rather than what is on the front. There are probably many who are in a similar situatuion and I would hazard a guess as long as there is something in steam at the front they will be happy enough. It is only the enthusiasts who are are hanginout out of the windows, timing, photoraphing who are overly concerned and in cash terms I wonder how much that tmakes up of the train?

 

Precisely the point I made earlier - these trips are NOT run for the benefit of enthusiasts in most cases.

 

I have just recieved tickets for the Swanage Trip on the 9th together with a letter which includes the following

"At the time of writing - due to the fire risk caused by the prolonged warm and dry weather - Network Rail has insisted that steam hauled trains in the South, include a diesel behind the steam engine to assist the steam loco so that it is not working so hard that there is a risk of setting fire to the lineside and disruptingthe network. However this situation is being reviewed daily by Network Rail in the light of prevailing rainfall and temperature."

 

I hear there is a Class 37 hauled railtour out of Victoria tomorrow, but are they going to ruin it by putting a kettle on the front?

 

Totally agree there Ralph, has been great reading this thread in more ways than one. Has been interesting reading the same stuff being written by the same people over the same subject discussed many times before........ Yawn.

Plain and simple fact is, if a tour has to have a diesel on it, then it will whether it be inside the loco or at the back. This is steam in the modern era and thats the way it is. If NR shouts, then people will have to follow as in the tour with 5029. "Hardened enthusiasts" should know that at this time of the year the fire risk comes into play so should maybe consider not booking on these trips. It actually makes a change having a fire risk considering we've not had a decent summer for some years, lets hope we do get some rain fairly soon though!

By the way, steam loco's that currently run on the national network have to have spark arresters, now how good they are is where it gets tricky. I know 3 that have very good ones, 1 should have been running today and the other 2 are out tomorrow!

 

It's hardly SD's,or any other operators fault. It's NR,and what they say goes. Drivers have to hold back because if a fire does start the loco they are in control of will get banned. Tour Operators cannot afford to start giving everyone partial refunds for diesel assistance.

At least they are decent diesels with WCRC,if it was a 67 then it would be truly shocking!

Pity the heritage diesel owners can't/don't pick up extra money for this sort of work.

 

Nice one :yield:

 

Hope Shoddy has now dozed off so I'm not boring him too much!

The above statement is very welcome. IMHO it should also be shown to anyone currently booking a seat on any of the affected Tour Promoters websites. So that bookings can be made with the full knowledge of the situation that could last just a few more days, or, (if we get a 1976 type summer), until the end of August. Who knows?

As for me? I'm just updating my hill walking training schedule to get extra miles and extra ascents done while main line steam is off the agenda. There is a life away from steam.

 

The London area did have 2 minutes of heavy rain at 1am.then god turned off the tap and said 'enough'...a water shortage and you will suffer a tin box.
...we await the evidence from our 'reporters' along the line.

 

Anyone know how far north the Diesel asssistance rule is being applied ? the last two out of London have had a Tractor inside but 71000 is running around the Cumbrian Coast today unaided, anyone know where the imaginary line NR have drawn is ?.

 

I think the last line is very appropriate and that rail tour promotors cannoty not hide behind the lack of rain in the summer months.

When an unexpected event happens, (ie. the engine breaks down), then it applies. When it is predicted and the operators plan for it... it is not unexpected.. promotors should give the option of rebooking to an alternative... not say it is as it is and offer no alternative.

The customer should have a choice in the event of "forseen" circumstances ("forseen" is what this is.. we know it's hot we know there's a diesel, the railtour planners have "forseen" this and taken avoiding action... it is therefore NOT unpredictable or "unforeseen" and as such Force Majeure does not apply).