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Steam Locomotive Restoration of the Decade 2010-2019

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Pete Thornhill, Dec 31, 2019.

  1. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    Oh yeah. Forgot about that!
     
  2. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    In my room at home sits a box of paint swatches.

    They were given to me by a friend, now sadly passed, and they were made up using pigments from original paint samples of various railway companies.

    Some of them are well known shades and there are many variations, which will also appear different due to the composition of different types of undercoat.

    There will also be variation in the shades once dry, and then varnished.

    The swatches come with instructions for mixes, number of coats, colour and number of under coats, and more.

    This information was put together by my friend by talking to individuals who worked in the paint shops at Doncaster, Darlington, and Stratford works.

    The railways were the first major users of corporate branding in industry, with livery arrangements carefully devised, and then applied, by men who would take hundreds of man hours to carefully apply lining out to even humble goods engines in the Victorian era.

    Being a painter of railway locomotives was a skilled job, requiring immense knowledge, whether scientific or by sight, of paint composition and how different coats change appearance when combined with other colours and varnishes.

    To do one locomotive was intricate work requiring skill. To make it match on hundreds of the same class of locomotive required a great level of consistency. This argument also applies to railway carriage painters and sign writers, though for some reason their efforts are rarely denigrated as just being “a rust preventative” or just “a coat of paint”.

    When I look at something like the SECR H class at the Bluebell, the Y14 at the NNR, the Caley Jumbo at Strathspey, or the myriad of intricate and beautiful industrial saddletank liveries recreated in the preservation era, I’m not seeing “just a coat of paint”.

    I’m seeing hard work, by volunteers mostly, or professional artists bringing to life liveries with precision, careful application, and a lot of sweat and love too.

    What troubles me about this thread most is the attitude of it not mattering at all. It does a disservice to everyone who does it now, and to their predecessors who took pride in their work and their railways.

    I feel increasingly we forget how much of a profession painting is, how much work goes into it, and how much pride railwaymen used to take in it.

    By all means, let’s enjoy the sight of a Jubilee (as an example) on the mainline. Having it in an inauthentic livery isn’t a shooting offence. It’s certainly not going to stop people enjoying it if all they want to see is a jubilee in steam, and that’s fine.

    But please - let’s not denigrate and ridicule the importance of railway liveries. They are important - and for some, they are part of what has always been a well respected profession that should command our respect.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2020
  3. Steve

    Steve Part of the furniture Friend

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    It is indeed a master craftsman who painstakingly rubs down and paints a locomotive, coach or whatever and meticulously lines it out. If that craftsman decides that, for whatever reason, he will apply his own style of livery or lining, that does not make it any less a work of a craftsman. If, on the other hand, the painter slaps on the paint and produces variable lines ( a bit like me) but closely follows the original paint scheme, it doesn't make him a craftsman.
     
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  4. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Part of the furniture

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    Many years ago, after several seasons trying not to be another rabbit puled from the Campbell hat, and in better - or worse paint schemes a number of us put up the money to have MV Balmoral repainted in 'White Funnel' colours

    Thus

    [​IMG]

    Although as an ex Red Funnel ship, and a motor ship to boot, the scheme hadn't been designed for her - and of course when she had worn it before in the 1970's she had been a very tired ship, the result was stunning.

    The Campbell brothers knew how to apply the paint and make a ship look good. As of course the railways did - and still do.
     
  5. Dunfanaghy Road

    Dunfanaghy Road New Member

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    I could be wrong, but I have always understood that pre-nationalisation engines were generally referred to by their old numbers, and even marked up on the duty board as such.
    Why can't I like a post more than once!

    Before I started getting under their feet they'd done more to the front end than Eastleigh ever did, plus the full treatment of the rest of the chassis and boiler. We even repaired parts of the tender bogies which can have no conceivable benefit. In 2-3 years time 499 should emerge from even more of the same (14 feet of new frame, against 9 feet).
    Its been commented upon before, but is worth restating: most of the engines from Barry (and probably those bought out of service) had quite a bit of life left from the last GO. Some items can go a couple of O/H cycles before needing the treatment. 506 is an example. This is one reason for the apparent jump in O/H costs felt by every loco owner; possibly the next one won't be so bad.
    Pat
     
  6. std tank

    std tank Member

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    You cannot beat a good coat of Riley black.
     
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  7. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    I think there's something in that. The Riley restored Black Fives are operational, painted in authentic liveries, and always well turned out. Contenders for the original thread's intention, no doubt.

    I think you should also throw in 60103 Flying Scotsman - restored by Riley & Sons, and Heritage Painting, as close as reasonably possible to its end of career with British Railways form - one of my favourite restoration jobs, a full on Rolls Royce effort by everyone involved.
     
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  8. std tank

    std tank Member

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    Now then, one of the Riley Class 5s is not in the authentic livery it had in BR days and I am not refering to name plates or 45157, when it appears. I can recall asking Ian, just after he had done the deed, whether anyone had said anything. His answer was "No".
     
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  9. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    Intriguing! I shall have to have a look...
     
  10. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Member

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    45212? - Has the top lamp bracket in the lowered position, but carries the early BR crest. Not strictly a Riley Engine, but his team's overhaul custodianship is to the most excellent standard!

    Or 45407 with a self-cleaning plate below the shedplate? (As has 44871)

    I'll be looking at top feed positions when I get home!

    Richard.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
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  11. std tank

    std tank Member

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    Livery is paint.
     
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  12. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Member

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    Correct - Sorry, going off on a tangent there! My mistake!

    Richard.
     
  13. misspentyouth62

    misspentyouth62 Member

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    I seem to recall 44932 in Green - a long time ago though at Carnforth
     

    Attached Files:

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  14. iancawthorne

    iancawthorne Part of the furniture

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    45212 has late crest I believe. 45407 and 44871 are early crest.
     
  15. MarkinDurham

    MarkinDurham Member

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    Indeed. Wasn't 5407 turned out in some form of Furness Railway colours too?

    In a similar vein, & from the same Steamtown stable:-

    The Fairburn tanks(2073 & 2085) which went to the Lakeside & Haverthwaite - one in Caley Blue & one in LNWR Blackberry Black.

    Betty Beet's Ivatt Class 2 (6441) in LMS Maroon is another one.

    Elsewhere, the KWVR's maroon Ivatt tank (41241) and their USA tank (72) in Golden Ocre, on the reopening special in June 1968 spring to mind.

    I'm sure that more examples are available :D

    Mark
     
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  16. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    5786 in 'Silver Jubilee' livery in 1977.
     
  17. 35B

    35B Resident of Nat Pres

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    The difference with at least the KWVR pair being that they were painted up with KWVR branding, not BR logos - so representing a new livery for the class, not applying a real livery to a locomotive or class that never carried it.
     
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  18. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Are you enjoying dancing on the head of that pin? :)
     
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  19. daveb

    daveb Member

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    In June 1968 BR was still running steam on the Aire Valley Line through platforms 1 and 2 at Keighley. Therefore having their own "corporate branding" to differentiate their operation from the run-down, filthy locomotives next door made perfect sense at the time.
     
  20. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Be fair, he hasn't tried to lay the blame at the door of Jeremy Corbyn (yet)! ;):):)
     

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