STEAM TOUR CANCELLATIONS‏ AND POSTPONEMENTS ETC.

By which you're saying there are two strong contrasting points of view contributing to this debate presumably ?

 

I would say that "Industrial Action" is one of the few excuses charter customers can understand as it has been part of life on and off the railways for many years.

 

Looking at UK Steam, you can see the basis on which DeepGreen made his comment. However, there is no one single factor which makes the next couple of weeks so full of Red. It isn't just the DBS industrial action - some trains have been cancelled for some time and some that are cancelled aren't DBS. Any of these factors, including the DBS situation, would not produce the miserable picture by themselves, but seem to have come together into a "perfect storm" of cancellation, as they seem to like to put it these days!

What the long term effect will be does depend very much on both what happens next and how the promotors deal with short notice cancellations. If the DBS dispute is settled, then a major cause of cancellation disappears. It is, however, work remembering that there have been a good number of cancellations unrelated to this dispute.

And, of course, all this takes place against a backdrop of the worst recession/emerging depression for many, many years. Hence, it could be very difficult even in a couple of years time, if the Railtour scene is much reduced, to judge how much effect these cancellations have had long term, as so many other factors could produce the same predicted outcome.

Steven

 

My guess is if DBS cancel, they pick up part of the tab.

I would guess many passengers will transfer their bookings, but some will cancel.

Long term I doubt the effect, look at British airways, they have an annual disaster nearly every year, yet people still fly with them.

As bean counter said,
Looking at uksteam, it was full of red for August and september before the DBS strike,. I believe it to be the Olympic effect.. Too many tours up north to compensate without sufficient southern connections and not enough northern demand, many would be passengers have decided to watch, be a games maker or goto the Olympics.

 

Have we mentioned the "catch up" on maintenance work after the olympics????

A lad i know who works for a possesion company said they had been told categorically no work was to be undertaken during that period, the catch up may be done now, which would equate to tours being cancelled for infrastructure work???

The eddict came from the Very top by the way.

 

Bean Counter and ADB968008 have summed it up perfectly for me, we have a combination of circumstances and events here, all of which have contributed to what seems to be an unprecedented number of cancellations in a short space of time.

This summer has been unlike others because of the Jubilee, and then the Olympics and Paralympics, which have, as has already been said, diverted people's attention away from their usual "distractions". I expect providers of other leisure and tourism pursuits could a report similar reduction in their custom if asked.

The DBS dispute is very unwelcome of course, but particularly so for SD, who chose them over others for their own reasons, but presumably to improve consistency and reliability, which due to this dispute, (the background with which I'm not familiar I have to say), hasn't been delivered sadly. I think SD will overcome this though as they have a very good past record to fall back on. Most Customers will not hold them responsible for the cancellations, I believe, will stay loyal, and continue travelling with them I'm sure.

My guess is we'll see slightly less tours planned next year, but not a major reduction. The good thing about main line steam is there's always something new coming along, whether it's a locomotive, or a variation on an itinerary etc, which keeps interest alive. RTC and VT are particularly good here it seems to me.

The point about the northern based ops is a very good one I thought, as there's always been calls for more of these tours, yet when they get organised, support in the numbers required isn't forthcoming. Never has the phrase "use it or loose it" been more appropriate. Those winter CMEs at the beginning of 2012 were all sell outs, and hopefully will be again next year. Apart from being something of a revival, which had its own appeal, and with the exception of the first one running from Manchester, they all started from London, which is key Id say. For economic reasons, London, and the routes radiating from it, will always be the originating, and pick up points of success, sad though that is for enthusiasts living in northern England. Unfortunately, that's how it is in the UK, and has been as long as I can remember. I believe Promoters should focus their efforts on London and the South East, with VT looking after the Midlands. The regular Railway Network permitting, those living in northern England should then be able to connect with tours en route, or via service trains to Birmingham and London. If HS2 ever gets built, this would facilitate that idea further. Railtour promoters have limited resources and capital to invest in their operations so have no choice but to focus on the low cost / high profit end of the business it seems to me.

Just my thoughts really..

 

I think there is a lot of unnecessary pessimism here. As someone who is intimately involved with train planning and bookings for VT, I can tell you that the future is not all doom and gloom!

Our Shakespeare season experienced the highest passenger numbers in 14 years! We have the usual number of tours planned for the second half of this year; we are planning a full timetable for the first half of 2013.

CHEER UP!

 

Thanks for sharing that Ben, it's music to mine, and I'm sure everyone else's ears. I only wish I still lived in Sutton Coldfield so I could enjoy more of VT's excellent tours !

It would be nice to hear from others at the coal face like Ben. Any chance of that ? We're all seeking, and caring for the same thing at the end of the day surely ?

 

Quote

"I believe Promoters should focus their efforts on London and the South East, with VT looking after the Midlands. The regular Railway Network permitting, those living in northern England should then be able to connect with tours en route, or via service trains to Birmingham and London. If HS2 ever gets built, this would facilitate that idea further. Railtour promoters have limited resources and capital to invest in their operations so have no choice but to focus on the low cost / high profit end of the business it seems to me. "

Been through this comedy statement before, for your information the sun does come out Oooop North, we have unrivalled scenary, it because promoters are lazy in publicising their attempts, that tours dont sell. Link up with Local papers, publicise it properly, and they will come, they may even come on other tours. The main problem is they have been marginalised in tour starts, and are out of the habit of going on one. To reverse that trend would take alot of hard work, something the major players (excluding VT), dont fancy yet, when the time comes when they have exhausted their opportunities in the area of operation now, and look to open up new avenues, they may already be closed.

 

There are some tours I would love to do "up-North" – A Trans Pennine Express (nothing to do with TPE Passenger Services) with 5043 from Liverpool to Manchester to York would be great. But we have the added “challenges” of getting from Tyseley to Liverpool ECS in the first place to start the tour make it quite a costly undertaking.

I have friends in Glasgow who are begging us to do a S&C & Shap from Glasgow with 6201 or 5043, but again, we have the costs of getting to/from Glasgow in the first place. Yes, this could be offset by selling tickets for the outbound and return journeys, but then we have to consider 3 days of costs (food and lodging) for the 25+ staff (Support, Stewards and Catering) we take with us, not to mention where we keep and service the loco and stock (more money!). This trip is getting more and more expensive to put on – who is going to underwrite the ₤30k+ in costs?

My suggestion for people wanting to start trains from Scottish stations would be to support SRPS in every way possible and encourage them to put on more day-excursions.

Do I need to mention The Jacobite and all the other tours WCR are putting on? All of theirs seem to originate North of the Watford Gap!

http://www.westcoastrailways.co.uk/charter_trips.html

 

I'd book on that! But as you say it is a very expensive undertake. Suppose I'll cope with RTC's york/scarborough tours

 

I am not sure that the comment that the restrictions on southern operations lead to unsuccessful attempts to run alternatives "up north" which failed to gather sufficient support are accurate.

The situation for a number of years has been "excursions" - one-offs or variations on standard itineries - tend to be London based, although a number of promotors have tried a slightly more varied selection of start points, still at most in the south midlands, while regular tours, which, Jacobite excepted, are focused on the school holidays and surrounding weeks, tend to be more northern based. A quick look at UK Steam would tned to support this, with most summer (July/August) cancellations being Olypmic connected and for London starts. I can't really see any pattern of trying Northern starts that has lead to cancellations. There has been the odd postponement, but usually engineering or pathing related.

Steven

 

Didn't the 'Fellsman', 'Cumbrian Mountain Express', 'North Wales Coast Express', 'Scarborough Flyer', 'Scarborough Spa Express', 'Welsh Mountaineer' and 'Waverley' all start in the 'north' throughout the summer?

 

They did indeed and that's a pattern of almost daily main line steam we'd love here down south.

 

Not to mention the "Mersey Moorlander". I travelled on several of these "Northern" based trains and all those I did travel on were full or not far short of full

 

Or over here. I seem to recall putting several miles on the car driving up to Shap, Ribblehead, Ais Gill and Kirkby Stephen so far this year.

 

Exactly - that was the point I was making - the North has the majority of the "regulars".

Steven

 

Just a comment from one who lives up North, and I mean proper north, not the Midlands like Sheffield and Manchester,
I think we have 2 specials starting from Newcastle this year, OC having an exciting run around Blyth and Tyne before going to Redmire, promises to be a great run out, and SNG visit to London before Christmas. We have a couple of round trips via S&C, or N&C to Edinburgh via Carstairs possible, how about it someone, NELPG have done superb ones in the past, lets hope they can get back again soon.

 

Ollie's going to the Weardale too, as well as the B & T. I'm booked on that one, having done the Wensleydale with the K1 in 2007 . Pity I've got to go to York to board it, but it's not TOO far 'down the road', of course. As for Gresley's London trip - booked on that one as well. It'll be nice to simply board at Durham

NELPG had to cancel this year's Spring trip, iirc, because the K1 wasn't ready, but here's hoping that they've something being planned for next Spring.

Mark

 

I wouldn't be too certain about that. It states on p21 of the latest issue of "Steam Railway" [no. 406] that Ollie is to go back to Loughborough after its main line run of 11 October [which according to uksteam is a "Swanage Belle"] for an intermediate boiler overall and other work. This would rule it out of "Wensleydale" 13/10, "Weardale" 20/10 and "The Hadrian" 27/10.