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Steaming back into Ryde?

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Christopher125, Dec 19, 2014.

  1. cav1975

    cav1975 Member

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    Sure there are some synergies, but a Heritage operation is not the same as a daily transport undertaking. Keeping the entities separate, but allied, would be the best way and allow the full use of each others talents and resources.
     
  2. gwalkeriow

    gwalkeriow Well-Known Member

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    Having worked in both the Heritage and Public Transport sectors I could not agree more, both have there pressures but in entirely different ways. At least in the Heritage world we are not subject to Government and Local Government policies and whims.
     
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  3. Richard Long

    Richard Long New Member

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    As far as Ryde tunnel is concerned, I've always understood that the tunnel floor was raised in 1967 (to reduce the risk of flooding), meaning that the old steam-era stock would no longer fit through the tunnel anyway. For the same reason I'd imagine that any modern Sprinter-type DMUs would be unable to operate the Island Line service. Redundant District line stock would also be no use as the District line trains are not built to the tube loading gauge.
     
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  4. gwalkeriow

    gwalkeriow Well-Known Member

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    Can I refer you to post 6 in this thread.
     
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  5. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

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    I am a reasonably regular 'Oil-o-Woi' visitor, which has a special place in our family as in WW2 Mother and Grandmother were evacuated from Bethnal Green to Niton on the south coast. (and my maternal Grandfather who was with an AA unit wangled a posting to an IOW based unit....). The house they were able to rent in Niton was only available to 'vaccies' as the garden was slowly crumbling into the sea. The whole house went in the 1960's and when I first went to the island in the 1970's all that was left was the (wired up!) front gate..... So, as a family the island means a lot to us and we have been back regularly and explored most of it by private, public and foot transport.

    Havenstreet started as an attraction in island terms pretty much in the middle of nowhere, and was improved (in railway terms) by the Smallbrook connections, at least as far as the railway-savvy are concerned. In fact, on a nice day, the walk up through Ryde from the ferry and out through the country to Havenstreet is hardly taxing, and very pleasant, although, once again, I am an unusual tourist in that my legs work - I walked Hadrian's Wall for my summer holiday a couple of years ago. The average tourist is blind, daft and immobile, so extending to Ryde SJR is really no improvement on Smallbrook, as Ryde SJR is not in the 'tourist' area of Ryde. However, to extend on to Ryde Esplanade would be a whole different ball game. The tourists on the ferries would see the steam train, as would the passengers using Ryde bus terminal, the hovercraft and all the Ryde town tourists. I was last on the island in September with my MGA for the car show in September and on the Sunday we were all lined up along the Esplanade. How great it would have been to have the steam train in sight, and I am sure an even greater cumulative 'day out' effect would have resulted.

    Am I right in thinking that the route west from Wooton to the outskirts of Newport is protected? Understandable that in the past Newport redeveloped the extensive railway land in the town centre but I would have thought the tourist value of bringing the trains back to at least the edge of Newport centre would have had value?

    kind regards and compliments of the season

    Robin White
     
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  6. Richard Long

    Richard Long New Member

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    I did read post 6 and it surprised me a lot. Happy to bow to your greater knowledge though.
     
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  7. siquelme

    siquelme Well-Known Member

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    Interesting thread. I have always wondered when the IOW steam railway would extend into the Island line to Ryde.
     
  8. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    No-one talked to to at Havenstreet today had anything other than a resounding "Huh!" for the idea of IOWSR taking over the operation of Islandline although my "poll" was anything but a scientific one. A number of comments were along the lines of "blasted politician seeking publicity in election year without the manners to discuss the idea first with the organisation he is seeking to lumber".

    My view is that any link between politicians and gricers of the "wouldn't it be nice" tendency should make everyone else seek refuge in the mountains!
    PH
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 23, 2014
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  9. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Surely as it is the IoW, that should be "seek refuge in the downs"?

    Tom (hat, coat ...)
     
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  10. nick813

    nick813 Well-Known Member Loco Owner

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    Hello,
    I could be wrong......often am.....
    Thought that 'challenges' are part of being human...without these ideas and thoughts we would be still swinging around in the trees....?!..,,!,..?

    We can land a fridge on a distant comet......the prospect of the IOWSR looking into a possible extension.......?

    Happy Christmas to all on Nat pres.

    My glass (s) is more than half full!


    Nick

    GWR 813
     
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  11. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    My reaction to the proposal is akin to that of Sir Patrick Spens "Who is this enemy, who has done this thing to me" (Originally in broad Scots of course.

    The IOWSR is no better placed to run Islandline successfully than Stagecoach could the IOWSR. Only the track gauge is really in common.

    PH
     
  12. GEARJAMMER

    GEARJAMMER New Member

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    Ive read this thread with interest and I was thinking much the same, if the IOWSR extended to the out skirts of Newport it could develop a Park and Ride scheme in similar vein to what Swanage has at Norden. Yes people do visit the Island in their cars, but if the traffic is that bad then maybe the idea of jumping on a stream train might be attractive?

    As for going the other way I think Robin has hit the nail on the head, the railway has to go to Esplanade to be in the heart of the town/action and get the tourists there as soon as they get off that ferry.

    As for Island line, as much as it hurts me to say it, id close it from Small Brook Jnc-Shanklin, make the route a buses only road route with perhaps an inter-change with rail at Small Brook, the stations are not in ideal positions to serve the towns, but if a bus could travel the old rail route it could then easily from the old stations drive into the town centres. Id also withdraw the trains from the pier, so in affect the IOWSR would have a terminus at Esplanade.
    I would also get buses connecting with IOWSR trains that only go to major attractions, for example, if a family come off the ferry at Newport and get stuck in traffic and see a Park and Ride, where they can board a steam train, the train then takes them to a station where they get off and get on a bus that takes them straight to the door of Amazon World, or Flamingo Park, or Black Gang Chine etc.
     
  13. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    No ferries go to Newport at all. I wondered if this was a typo for "Ryde" but the substitution does not work either. Actually your position regarding "bustitution" is harder line than mine although if the £40 million cost being given for sorting out Pierhead to Shanklin does not materialise then this might happen. £15 million is the given sum for re-opening to the outskirts of Newport because of civil engineering issues, including soil instability. The question has been posed as to the level of extra fares which can be levied for the extra length of line.

    Let's forget gricer's woolly romanticism and politicians' electoral calculations. The IOWSR is a visitor attraction and not a public transport undertaking. The (presently) electric line is a public transport facility and not a visitor attraction.

    PH
     
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  14. David R

    David R Well-Known Member

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    Somehow this thread veered away from the exciting news of a possible IOWSR extension to Ryde St Johns Road to IOWSR taking over Island Line. Ryde St Johns Road - excellent. Synergies are IOWSR taking over care of Ryde St Johns and making it a very atmospheric and cared for station, possible co-operation on engineering resources and P Way and benefit to IOWSR of Pedestrian and Road access at Ryde. IOWSR taking over Island Line - romantic but no chance. Extension to outskirts of Newport - just possible but very unlikely without massive outside investment, although Swanage Railway have now had grants/assistance of £5M+ towards getting to Wareham and that only gets 5 trains a day for 90 days of the year. Lets keep dreaming!

    David R
     
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  15. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

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    I was going to point out that the original post SAID NOTHING about the IOWSR taking over Island Line, but rather that a CIC take it over and that this would then enable a IOWSR extension into Ryde. The rest was pure National Preservation!

    That said, I refer my learned colleagues on NP to the strange case of Preßnitztalbahn Gmbh. This, as you may gather, is a German Railway Company. A Saxony based preservation organisation who have preserved a narrow gauge line in a quite remote part of that Länder (one of the few areas in Germany not to have a perfect mobile 'phone signal!), the owning society has a commercial subsidiary which leases standard gauge locomotives to the likes of National Express, and another division which both runs the steam narrow gauge line on the Baltic island of Rügen and holds the franchise for the standard gauge branch with which it connects at Putbus.

    Such a model may be worthy of examination at a suitable location the UK. However, other than advice and assistance on how to be a train operator - (something which I presume it is agreed the IOWSR is as a vital part of delivering its Charitable Objectives (regular readers of the "West Somerset Developments" thread groan and dive for cover!) - I don't think much else is being asked of the IOWSR by the politicians who have given rise to the news story which started this thread.

    I would, however, point out that engagement with local decision makers is vital. They may have their own motives and agendas but they can be good friends and painful enemies. It can seem incredibly presumptuous for people to start deciding that the local heritage railway can do this, that or the other to suit whatever agenda is being discussed, but engagement with those who have some genuine element of say over such things can help avoid impractical public proclamations and ensure that not only are good relations and effective support (when required) maintained but uninformed opinions die an early and private death and public embarrassment is avoided. A little tact in dealing with anyone in the public sphere can go a long way!

    Steven
     
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  16. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Part of the furniture

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    I can't see what converting it into a road for buses would achieve - you may as well spend such considerable sums on modernising the existing railway which is not only cheaper, faster and more comfortable to use than the bus but they can also use the pier.

    I don't see any great issues with the stations now that the tourist traffic has declined, sacrificing the end-to-end journey time for a detour around the towns and villages en-route wouldn't give you anything better than the existing bus service and I doubt there's the traffic to justify competing services anyway.

    Chris
     
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  17. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    It seems that the IOWSR is indeed being touted to lead the CIC group. The former is happy to assist but will not "lead" the project.

    "Impractical public proclamations", alas, have not been avoided. Any cynicism about proximity to forthcoming events in May are purely on the part of myself and other posters on this thread!

    PH
     
  18. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    it seems to make sence to include the management of the IOWSR in any future deal, but it should not have to finance it, i agree with combining the 2 lines, but for maintance work only at first, tthe IOWsr track gang is most likily the only people quailfied to be able to maintain the track on behalf of and CIC, short of paying NR, dropping the platform hights at the stations should be do able at Brading by slewing the line over to the down side, after the track beds been droped, then digging out the other side to relay the loop, or if you want to keep tube clearence relay track into the bay side, with steam clearences, same at Sandown, relay track into the newport platform, to separate any electric trains from pw trains, that way if there is to be a change over from tube to mainland lul surface stock, then it can be done peacemeal until the whole line is done, shanklin can be done by rebuilding the disused platform , then once done the other can be done by having a end on walk round, to allow passengers to exit the station.
     
  19. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    It's all very well saying the IoWSR track gang are qualified to maintain the Island Line track, but I assume they are largely volunteers. So you are changing a 5 mile infrastructure to maybe a 15mile infrastructure: that means three times the resources (both cash and people) just to stand still in quality terms. Even if the proposal came with cash backing, that doesn't magic three times the volunteer workforce out of thin air.

    I'm also sceptical about the psychological willingness of volunteers on what is essentially a leisure / heritage undertaking to start doing work for what will be essentially a commercial / public service undertaking. Sooner or later, people might start wondering why they joined an organisation dedicated to running heritage steam engines and carriages, yet they are maintaining infrastructure to enable a few pacers to go up and down. (Off topic, but I have similar scepticism about the long-term wisdom of having regular modern through trains on the Swanage branch, for the same reasons, though I accept that for many of the founders of that line, that was an important reason on why they originally set it up).

    Tom
     
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  20. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    You make it sound so easy but it is not. People forget the IOWSR is quite a small organisation which has taken over forty years to get to where it is now, aided no end by the fact that such expensive distractions as corridor trains longish runs and Class 7p motive power have been impossible. Now the advantages of avoiding such distractions, not the least in being able to achieve 100% ownership with a simple administrative structure should be clear to all but alas they are not. Hence the various "wheezes" put about as to what should happen next.

    Take your thoughts on Brading for a start. The island platform is unsuitable for wheelchair access without a ramped bridge across the line. Nowadays this omission cannot be entertained and, given enough money, can be sorted. It is an example of how easy it is to say things without thinking the implications through. It needs an organisation with experience of public transport operation, including infrastructural matters and not the operator of a small heritage railway which has quite enough things to think about already.

    PH
     
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