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Streamlined Duchess, past and future

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by tfftfftff86, Jun 21, 2009.

  1. 45669

    45669 Member

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    Whether we like it not, 'D of H' is likely to remain 'stuffed and mounted' at least for the time being. Hopefully, though, she will be a big draw at the NRM, and if she brings the punters flooding through the doors that will justify the money that has so far been spent on her.

    I haven't been to see her yet, but a friend of mine has and he sent me a couple of pictures to put on my Fotopic site. If anyone is interested to see them, they're here :

    http://ronfisher.fotopic.net/c1099919.html

    As usual, this is the 'Stop Press!' collection for new pictures. In due course I shall move them on and they will then be found in the Nation Railway Museum collection in the 2nd Gallery :

    http://ronfisher2.fotopic.net/c1374307.html
     
  2. 46236

    46236 Member

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    To deny us the right to see the streamlined 6229 under power on the main line is akin to deny us our human rights. The sheer beauty of the machine held me in awe when I saw her in 'the flesh'. She is like no other, simply breathtaking. Only fault is she has a double chimney which did not appear until 1943 according to records. She is now truly the 'star' of the NRM, hopefully to be the 'star' of the mainline sooner than later. If there is a God this will surely happen. Hopefully she may become the next Steam Railway mag appeal loco.
     
  3. saltydog

    saltydog New Member

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    I think that we have to face up to the fact that in these hard up times the NRM isn't in any position to stump up the cash to overhaul her. So if it is going to happen it will have to be through a public appeal.
    Maybe if someone was to stump up a sizable donation to kick start such an appeal then maybe the NRM would consider the idea, otherwise I can't see them giving it much of a priority. And by sizable I mean about 10% of the cost.
    And don't forget that if they did decide to go ahead and out sourced the job then the contractor would most certainly want to see that most if not all of the money was already in place.
    I agree with what has been said elsewhere, that to see her hauling "Olympic Specials" in 2012 would be a great advert not only for the preservation movement but for British Engineering in general.
     
  4. 61624

    61624 Well-Known Member

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    The NRM will never have the cash to restore it, if you mean by that "the NRM will one day make provision in its budget to restore it", because its annual grant makes no provision for restoring and running working exhibits. They can only do it if they can raise the cash by donations for that purpose. Nor do they have a budget allocation for the staff to look after it and keep it in running order, so even if you went along to them with a big cheque to cover the cost of restoration they still might not have the resource to carry on from there, so ask yourself, which of the current operable NRM locos don't you mind losing in order to free up some resources?
     
  5. Umseke

    Umseke New Member

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    As I am sure many readers will know a lot of this has already been covered in the National Railway Museum forum under the topic 'Streamlined 46229'. On there I posted a comment about a choice of NRM locos for return to the main-line.

    I think the almost instant reply posted as below can probably be accepted as the official NRM position on this, and certainly supports the post by 61624.

     
  6. conireland

    conireland New Member

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    [/quote:awufow4e]

    Trying not to swerve too far from the topic, it would be much more pleasurable to sample 'Green Arrow' than the Duchess as there are already Duchesses around, OK not streamlined ones but there are still Duchesses, V2's there are only one, restore that instead, more individual, and for streamlined engines, A4's there are three.
     
  7. 73129

    73129 Member

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    Reading a back issue of Steam railway June/July 2009 No364 page 13 Helen Ashby has been quoted saying “ The earliest date will be 2018 and then it will depend on the market/operating environment/museum policy at that time”


    Unless the NRM change their mind it will be some time before we will see her pounding the main line again. In my opinion there are other locos that should be considered for main line work again before 46229 should be put back on the main line. What about overhauling Green Arrow a worthy loco to be considered and a very popular choice with most people.


    :-k :-k :-k :-k
     
  8. tfftfftff86

    tfftfftff86 New Member

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    "Most people"?? A "6229 + train set by 2012" project would be for well-off train fans worldwide and for Joe Public, not primarily for UK enthusiasts. It would be Tornado Mk 2 in terms of publicity for preserved steam - like Tornado, coming soon to a line near you.

    As always, where there's a will there's a way. Branson would be soooo tempted to come up with sponsorship for a Crewe-based red monster, but no-one with clout seems to have even thought of asking him.
     
  9. Dan Hamblin

    Dan Hamblin New Member

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  10. RalphW

    RalphW Part of the furniture Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    That's rather a sweeping statement, 'most people', what is it based on?
     
  11. aperture

    aperture New Member

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    Looks like it's been used for target practice,Dan.
    ....or come under heavy machine gun fire.
    The driver had no chance. (just kidding before the letters come rolling in).
     
  12. Linesider

    Linesider Member

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    Green Arrow is indeed a cracking engine but 46229 has been cold for 10 years more, which you might say adds more weight to its case.

    Anyway, if you ask me, a great opportunity has been missed somewhat; 6233 is just about to depart from the mainline scene and what would have been better to replace it?
     
  13. sunstream

    sunstream New Member Friend

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    Achieving the level of media and general public attention that 'Tornado' has done will, I think, not be done by 4771 or 4472, worthy locos that they are.
    I agree with tfftfftff86 that it would need something like a streamlined Duchess and matching train.
    As 6233 is about to start her overhaul, why not streamline her?
    I know she wasn't an original streamliner but if the streamlining could be made by Tyseley concurrently with the overhaul and the timescales might then be feasible.
    Of course I have no knowledge of Tyseley's commitments or PRCLT's views, I merely put this forward for discussion and/or target practice.
     
  14. RalphW

    RalphW Part of the furniture Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    What!!!!:faint:
     
  15. std tank

    std tank Member

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    Sunstream, where you around when 4472 did, what turned out to be, it's ill-fated tour of preserved railways? Without doubt Flying Scotsman is the most well known and popular steam locomotive in Britain, with Tornado a close second. If I recall 4472 finally failed at Llangollen after drawing in massive crowds at the other railways it visited. As for 4771, it is an enthusiast's loco and is just another big loco in the eyes of the general public.
     
  16. SpudUk

    SpudUk Member

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    I agree, as big a name as Scotsman is, a Steamlined Dutches with matching stock would easily attract public attention more
     
  17. dalrypaul

    dalrypaul Guest

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    It might attract their attention more for those who actually see it, but if you tell a non-enthusiast that Flying Scotsman is visiting the local railway, I'd pretty much guarantee there'd be more turn out than if you told them Duchess of Hamilton was visiting. Regardless, I'd love to see a streamlined Duchess on the mainline. It would still be extremely popular, but I think you're kidding yourselves if you think it'd be more popular then Scotsman.

    While I think Green Arrow is great, and sadly it is the closest we now have to what Flying Scotsman should look like, I agree it is an enthusiasts engine and for the general public there isn't anything particularly special about it.
     
  18. evilswans

    evilswans New Member

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunstream View Post
    As 6233 is about to start her overhaul, why not streamline her?

    you are joking arn't you dude? If not i want some of that stuff you have been smoking lol

    and it would mega to see hamilton out on the mainline in the old tub, but unless someone is willing to stump the cash up it aint gonna happen for a while is it, do we have a due date on 4472 yet????

    cheers
    Matt
     
  19. SpudUk

    SpudUk Member

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    I disagree, before Tornado recieved its media coverage, most members of the general public wouldn't have known what an A1 or Tornado was, it was only the coverage it recieved on the TV that made it so popular! In the same vain, I believe that a streamlined beast with matching rake on the mainline would draw more media attention, and as a result bring out the GP more then Scotsman. Then again, Scotsman ALONE might draw more crowds to heritage lines where a streamlined Dutchess couldn't run with her full matching rake...!
     
  20. Guest

    Guest New Member Account Suspended

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    For a demonstration of public awareness stand by any line with a video camera and take a completely neutral test

    Se how many general public, normals, grockles, call them what you will, amble up and ask "is the Flying Scotsman coming" as against DoS or any other loco, Tornado included. There's your answer as to public consciousness - whether they could then recognise 4472 from 4771, 6233 or 5029 is entirely another matter!
     

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