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Suburban steam

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by andrewshimmin, Apr 28, 2017.

  1. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Well-Known Member

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    I am interested to find out more about the evolution of suburban/commuter services in the 19th and early 20th centuries. In particular, what motive power was used, how did coaching stock evolve, what did different railways do differently, etc.
    Can anyone recommend a book?
    Or share some titbits of knowledge?
     
  2. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    That's a huge question and there probably isn't a single resource that covers it all as a subject.
    There are various websites that include some info, for instance;
    https://www.londonreconnections.com/2015/east-of-enfield-north-of-stratford/
     
  3. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    Mm, there''s probably a book there, more than one if the author wants to start considering the wider social effects of practical commuting (although I imagine that may have been covered with less of a railway focus).
     
  4. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    It seems to me though that in many areas until 'Post MK1' stock arrived apart from going from 4-6 wheeled stock to bogie the coaches (non corridor compartment) didn't change for over a century. Certainly the motive power obviously did but not necessarily the passenger experience
     
  5. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    Do you think that might be a little simplistic? Frequency of service, ticket pricing, (over) crowding, compartment size, seat comfort, even standards of maintenance and cleanliness must have had a significant effect on passenger experience and the development of the services.

    There's a little aside in Cook's Swindon steam where he mentions, in connection with the standardisation to vacuum braking in the 1920s, that 'the Great Easter section were emphatic that they could not operate their intensive suburban service out of Liverpool Street without the quick release of the Westinghouse.'
     
  6. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    a good starting point would be to study the Metropolitan Railway which was about the only line actually planned from inception. The MR is rarely seen in photos and yet had some fascinating locos.
     
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  7. MuzTrem

    MuzTrem Member

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  8. 5801

    5801 Member

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    The late Clive Foxell's many books about the Metropolitan provide more photos than anyone could want. However, for a serious study of what the OP is after, I would recommend Alan A Jackson's various works, including 'London's Termini' (1969), 'London's Local Railways' (1978/1999), 'London's Metropolitan Railway' (1986) and 'Semi-detached London' (1973/1991), among others.

    None of these books focus particularly on the traction. For that you might look at E J S Gadsden's 'Metropolitan Steam' (1963) or Frank Goudie's 'Metropolitan Steam Locomotives' (1990). For the carriages, everything you need to know is in James R Snowdon's 'Metropolitan Railway Rolling Stock' (2001).
     
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  9. Steve B

    Steve B Well-Known Member

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    Continuing the London theme: "London and its Railways" by R Davies and M D Grant (1983). For more info, and I find a helpful introduction, to the history of the Metropolitan Railway and District Railway locos and stock, and subsequent electrification, "Steam to Silver" by J Graeme Bruce. Published in 1970 by London Transport. A great book for what it is, and it only cost 18 shillings when new...

    Both are probably long out of print, but if you can pick them up second hand they would be worth it. LT also produced a similar volume on the tube lines, which I don't have.

    I probably need to modernise my book collection!

    Steve B
     
  10. D1039

    D1039 Guest

    I know little about the subject but do some social history. A couple of things come to mind that might stimulate interest - workman's tickets I believe were sold for early morning/pre-commuter services. And the relationship with trams and its effect on suburban train travel.

    I suspect part of your issue will be to narrow down your enquiry into something manageable but perhaps an idea is to research generally and then drill down on one or two specific areas? Just a thought.

    Good luck

    Patrick
     
  11. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Well-Known Member

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    Thanks everyone! If anyone else has suggestions, I would be happy to hear. It seems an inordinate amount of print (and photos) is/was spent on the few express locos, when the many locos rushing commuters in and out of our majors cities don't get much of a mention. Yet they probably contributed more to the companies' balance sheet and to ordinary people's lives.
     
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  12. John Webb

    John Webb Member

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    The Alan Jackson book "London's Local Railways" (ISBN 1 85414 209 7 - note this is the enlarged 2nd edition from 1999) - mentioned by 5801 is comprehensive and looks at the development (and in some cases non-development) of the commuter railways. It is well illustrated with photos of trains, both coaches and engines, and stations. I'd recommend getting a sight of this book if you can.
     
  13. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Nat Pres stalwart

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    I'd second that - I got my copy as a result of someone's passing and it is a thoroughly engaging and incredibly detailed volume, as one would expect from Alan Jackson.

    Highly recommended.

    Also, don't forget the series of books on London's Railways by Vic Mitchell et al.
     
  14. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    It is easy to become too "lococentric". For example, the Metropolitan had one individual feature that persisted until the end of steam haulage. This was the rounded top to the carriage doors, designed to reduce the chance of a door flying open from smashing itself against the tunnel wall. This was facilitated by the wide loading gauge resulting from the line's broad gauge origins.

    PH
     
  15. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    The LBSCR and the LCDR were also air-braked lines with heavy suburban traffic. Particularly interesting in the case of the LCDR as in many cases it was a pretty impecunious railway, but it evidently saw sufficient advantage to standardise on air brakes, despite the need to pay royalties to Westinghouse.

    Tom
     
  16. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Stroudley had been at the Newark brake trials and observed the Westinghouse brake in service. He seems to have been unusually safety conscious for his time as witness the introduction of a passenger alarm signal which really worked and the pioneering work with electric lighting on trains. Tbe L.B.S.C.R. was not wildly prosperous, although better off than the L.C.D.R.

    P.H.
     
  17. LesterBrown

    LesterBrown Member

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  18. M59137

    M59137 Well-Known Member

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    There is an exhibition on Suburban travel at Holt station, North Norfolk Railway, which is open every running day. In there are videos of suburban services out of Kings Cross, interviews with commuters and about 60ft of wall space exhibition with information and pictures showing the evolution of suburban travel. You won't spend all day in there, but it's worth a visit if you're interested. If you visit during a gala or "suburban week" in July, then the Mark 1 suburban set, which compliments the exhibition, will also be in operation.

    Sent from my HTC Desire 620 using Tapatalk
     
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  19. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Well-Known Member

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    I always understood it was so that the door could be opened in a tunnel to facilitate evacuation in an emergency - something the Underground still thinks about today, specifying front doors in all cabs for the same reason.
    Also, the broad gauge section was Paddington (Suburban) to Farringdon, most of this is cut & cover (i.e. two walls with a roof on top) with relatively few arched overbridges. Whereas north of Baker Street there are long tunnels in the more traditional shape. I would have thought the curved tops to the doors were more relevant there, in which case the broad gauge reference is largely (although not entirely) erroneous. The Metropolitan did persist with a generous loading gauge though - which is why the recently replaced 'A' stock trains were about the only trains around in which 3+2 seating was reasonably comfortable. I believe they were the widest trains in the UK. (They were delivered new over the Great Central, another line with a generously wide loading gauge.)
     
  20. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Is that an Underground thing? I thought the ability to evacuate in tunnels was a mandatory feature of most new trains operating in tunnels
     

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