SVR Carriage Disposals

Possibly GWR Corridor third 4872 ??
Steve

 

The GWR coach is an 813 Fund vehicle, not an SVR vehicle, and has been in store on the SVR for some 24 years. This is simply the case of an agreement with another heritage line by the 813 Fund which will see a much earlier return to service than if it had remained on the SVR. Sounds like good sense to me. There appears to be no change of ownership.

The 813 Fund has an extensive collection of rolling stock, the majority, but by no means all of which is on the SVR. There are items based at GWS Didcot, the Dean Forest, the Avon Valley, West Somerset, and the South Devon Railway. Restoration projects have been initiated or completed on various items of 813 Fund stock on a number of these lines, who then benefit from using the restored vehicles.

With a large collection I am sure it makes good sense to benefit a number of heritage lines.

 

Can anyone tell us about 4872? In the carriage survey it is listed as being very original in terms of its interior - but then goes on to say that it was assessed as an ex-Departmental and the degree of originality was in the context of its departmental use! So, does it retain much in the way of compartments, seats etc?

 

In departmental use, DW150209, it was used as a S&T Dormitory coach, so I would imagine very little was changed internally?
Steve

 

Not necessarily. All seats could have been stripped out and replaced with bunks and in some cases they took a couple of compartments out to make space for a messroom. Gresley sleeper third 1299 was modified in this way, and had two further comparments modified to provide a kitchen and washroom, so in the end only 5/7 compartments were in situ, and only 2out of those5 were used for sleeping! However, conversions did vary so I'm guessing that perhaps a bit more survived in this one. It wil be a nice addition to the SDR fleet when finished.

 

The GWR 813 Fund describe the carriage as "substantially complete internally, and in reasonable overall condition."

Incidentally, credit is due to the 813 Fund founder, Pat Goss, for the hours he puts in running his sales stand at Kidderminster and in the season at other heritage lines. Talking to him at Kidderminster recently his main concern at the moment is the boiler overhaul now due for GWR 813, their delightful ex-Port Talbot Railway tank. Pat was musing over the relative costs of copper and steel, should the engine require a new inner firebox.

 

No, that's inaccurate.

E9124E was sold (not donated) by its private owner in 2005, bought by the GCR's supporting charity the DCRT*, and continued in service until its unfortunate argument with 45305 in early 2006. Like 45305 it was 'patched up' and soldiered on for a short time before being withdrawn for more thorough repairs.

So, faced with an unexpected repair bill, the GCR/DCRT found themselves wondering whether it would be better to sell the Gresley buffet and invest the money in the Mk.1 fleet which, after all, the GCR is better geared up to looking after. You're right that the previous restoration team weren't happy about this suggestion (having invested so much time in the vehicle previously) so, from what I've heard, they have undertaken to carry out the repair themselves, though I don't think its ownership will change.

I should caveat this by saying that my info is based largely on what I've read in GCR and RVP publications and may not be 100% up to date.

To the best of my knowledge the GCR management has no problem whatsoever with vintage stock, but the simple fact is that we don't have much of it that works, and there is always a balance to strike between the commercial and historical sides of the railway. So I think it will be the case, for the time being, that the railway's rolling stock will be largely Mk.1 based - but who's to say what will happen in future.

As for the GCR-based Gresleys being restored to 'teak' livery, 24278 is making good progress, see www.rvp-ltd.org.uk for the latest including some recent photos on the news pages. It's been a long job, but given that it hadn't run since catching fire in the early 1970s, that's hardly surprising! 24278 will be the second completed 'teak' coach after the BG(P) 4050, there are a few to go at before we see a full train of them on the GCR but I'm certain that that day will come.

Apologies for interrupting a SVR thread.

Phil

(*Possibly the MLST then transferred to DCRT, I'm not sure)

 

I'm happy for the record to be set straight, although one would have thought that the Gresley should have been covered for repairs by insurance. I'm still left with the impression, from talking to people at the GCR over the years, that there isn't a great apetite for anything that isn't in BR colours though.

 

I can understand your point, but do bear in mind the GCRs image until more recent was the 1950's era so possibly that is why greselys and other stock were considered out of place. There is the 4 BIG though.

The GCRN and the the Rollingstock trust are different enteties, the rollingstock trust just happens to be based at this line and in my opinion is no longer for the the good of itself with what appears to be a very small volunteer force(if any) and one director who supports these vehicles.
It not suprising If you consider how weak the GCRN appeared to be a few years back that it was inevitable that whats happened in the last couple of years was going to happen,
It seems to have been dominated by a diesel crowd that seem to undersandably have little consideration for vintage stock, More than likely on the grounds it doesnt fit in with their locos that they brought to this line and took as thei own.
what it looks like to me is that the diesel owners would be more than happy with a few blue and grey mk1s or 2s and a rake comprising of HAA merry-go-round coal hoppers(or some of that family of wagon).
Looking at the bigger picture, unlike the GCR plc, they dont seem to be interested in preserving the Great Central as such, To them its a line to play diesels with no regard for any historical interest or value to anything else other than the 1970's/80's WNXX type era, which alone is very narrow minded, but thats it in my opinion.

 

61264 - I agree, but I've also heard that 45305's insurance payout didn't cover the full cost of repair (quite apart from the lost income as it was only a year or two into its ticket), so I can well imagine that E9124E wasn't covered for the full cost either. Not knowing much about railway vehicle insurance, I can only compare with car insurance where, even when paying out, quite often the owner must pay a premium and if they want more than a 'quick bodge' there might be an argument about how much of the cost is covered. Plus, I am guessing but might the GCR be facing a higher premium as a result of the claim?

E9124E is entirely appropriate for the 1950s era anyway, being restored to BR livery. It was also one of the first five coaches on the preserved GCR and actually ran in preservation in blue & grey livery... but I digress.

As for pre-BR liveries - I think it's more a case of that we have mainly BR-built carriages and wagons so that has dictated what liveries we've painted the locos in. Personally, I'd quite like it if we put some of the pre-BR wagons back into pre-BR liveries so that we could have a mixed freight from an earlier period. But we probably need a few more in traffic first or we'll end up with a right old mess or some very short trains. Anyway, it's only paint...

INSPIRATION - You are confusing the GCR and GCRN, possibly. We had been discussing the former; whilst I'm a member of the latter I'm not actively involved so it isn't really fair for me to comment. However whilst they are separate organisations, both are keen to link up with the other, so sooner or later there will have to be a discussion about wider strategy for the image and so on of the combined railway. My hope is that there will be room for everyone; I don't see why there shouldn't be.

This is getting very off-topic for the subject of this thread...

Phil

 

People always forget our six operational varnished-teak coaches on the Bluebell, and they are not just pre-nationalisation, but are all Victorian! Then there's the Quadarts on the North Norfolk.

I have to say that from a heritage point of view, I'm not that keen on the idea of fitting modern interiors to the Barnums, but if it gets them running and thus more secure, then it's better than not doing anything. The authentic interiors can come many years later if necessary - the best way to preserve the surviving historic fabric of a coach is for it to run (and be stored under cover when not running of course).
Regards,
Richard

 

Even for the 1950s, pre nationalisation stock is more appropriate than Mk1s. BR did not suddenly scrap all it's older coaches as soon as it started building MK1s. Ex LNER coaches were used well into the 1960s, and the vast majority of coaches used on the Great Central in the 1950s would have been LNER not MK1.