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SVR General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by threelinkdave, Aug 20, 2014.

  1. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    I’d love to know what your partner thinks about your dirty weekend Martin ;)
     
  2. Robin

    Robin Well-Known Member Friend

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    It is no secret that the new refreshment room / toilet block went badly over budget and consumed much more of the funds than it should have. There were a number of reasons, including poor project management by the SVR, poor performance by the contractors, unforeseen difficulties with ground conditions and materials, bad weather during construction, and the late (but correct IMO) decision to extend the concrete pad to provide the outdoor seating area. One of the last pre-COVID AGMs confirmed that additional fund raising would therefore be needed to complete all the objectives, with the Charitable Trust being involved. As one of the investors in the share issue myself, I think that was very unfortunate, but as far as I can see the project management lesson has been learned; subsequent projects (car park and access roads, Falling Sands, shed roof) have been well managed and delivered on time / budget.

    We have since had COVID, which delayed everything for several years and has saddled the SVR with repaying £1.5m of CBILS loans over the next 5 years. At the same time, we are operating with massively increased costs and potentially reduced visitor numbers due to the impact of the Ukraine war. Despite that, the SVR has not said that that they have abandoned any of the original objectives, only that they are being deferred.
     
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  3. Macko

    Macko Member

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    Robin, you can use the word unfortunate, I could use others. To double down on that poor use of the funds raised and drastically cut back the benefits (which personally I am not fussed about, but it upset many) and then to write so disparagingly about shareholders with comments made by the GM and backed by the board was unacceptable in my view, and I see no change it that attitude. I will continue to support loco groups at the SVR but I have no belief in the management of the SVR any more in its current form and will give no more until there is a change.
     
  4. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    I don’t want to speak for him, but my Dad has similar concerns that you’ve raised about the current management of the SVR.
    How do I put this? My niece and nephew will be monetarily better off for their future at the expense of the SVR because of the those in charge at the moment.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2022
  5. D1039

    D1039 Guest

    I think this is something that compounds it

    The three companies (Holdings, Guarantee, CT) have priorities for fundraising/capital expenditure and have not published them. What's probable is that the 2016 phase I BH station building isn't high on it: already Falling Sands, Bridgnorth MPD and Yard have taken precedence - and the turntable is lower (lowest?) still. I'd lay a modest wager that the next CT appeal won't be for BH station building either.

    'The project team leading this has restated its commitment to the [station] plans, but indicated that’s unlikely to go ahead until 2024 at the earliest.' This is the third announced delay.

    Taken together, five years from when the share offer closed the project team (not the Railway, I note - odd) is committed to do something, sometime. The Railway hasn't committed to a date or (publicly at least) where it sits in the fundraising or CapEx priorities. The proposed date repeatedly is pushed back.

    I absolutely appreciate that. My point has been that the uncertain status of the BH station building project and turntable for which funds were specifically raised is IMO corrosive to trust. A couple of posts above support this, some are less likely to support the Railway financially. I won't labour the point further, you'll be pleased to hear!
     
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  6. gios

    gios Member

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    I am afraid I have to reluctantly agree with the sceptism and feelings of others.
    The new buffet at Bridgnorth is the size of a smallish single story building. It was constructed on previously known and investigated 'made ground' on land owned by the SVR. The cost overun was evident to anybody who observed the construction/lack of construction process. What was not evident was the huge scale of the financial overun. Why and how was this construction allowed to continue without early intervention by management when supporters money was involved?
    Like others I doubt the rest of the promised work will ever be completed, not least because many supporters trust has been severly eroded by broken promises and the recent shareholder issues. 'My word is my bond'.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2022
  7. Robin

    Robin Well-Known Member Friend

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    I fully understand your point of view, which is clearly shared by many others that I have spoken with, either directly or via social media. The shareholder debacle was, to put it mildly, not the management's finest hour, particularly following on the heels of the station building overspend. I said my bit regarding the shareholder situation back in post #2180 so won't repeat it here.

    Like you, I support a number of the individual loco (and carriage) groups as well as the railway itself. Two of the locos I support financially are currently being completed in the works at Bridgnorth, which brings me back to my overall feeling on the SVR. I try to look at things in terms of the whole railway, not just the management. When the appeal for funds for the shed roof went out, I was fully aware of just how bad the working conditions were, having been in there from time to time. Like others, I had to weigh up the question which to me was effectively "do I keep my hand in my pocket to punish the Board for past mistakes, or do I make a further donation on top of my share purchase to make life better for the staff and volunteers working in the MPD". I swallowed my pride and made a donation (as did many others of course), as a result of which the folks working on 82045 and 4150 and all the other locos can now do so in a far safer and more pleasant environment. As and when other appeals come up, I will consider them in the same terms.
     
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  8. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    ..... and therein lies the rub, doesn't it? The problem with removing elected officials, if they are not inclined to step down of their own accord, is that AGMs are very poor mechanism to achieve that. Usually the postal votes will outweigh those of the people present, but the postal vote will almost invariably vote for the status quo. It would take massive and well organised (and expensive) campaigning to have any chance of success unless the discontent is really deep rooted and reaches the ears of the armchair voters.
     
  9. Dead Sheep

    Dead Sheep Member

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    An interesting question that is answered by the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000. As the prospectus forms part of a contract between the company and investors, such investors may have a claim for damages against the company for breach of contract or rescission on the grounds of misrepresentation if any statement is untrue. If an officer of a company or the company provide false or misleading information or dishonestly conceal facts then they will subject to criminal law. In this instance, I doubt that there was intent but information could have been handled more openly with shareholders.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2022
  10. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    the lot of the last few SVR General managers has not been a happy one

    Alun Rees came into the sale of Kidderminster Station
    Nick Ralls into a the floods
    Helen Smith into a Global Pandemic

    I have jokingly said to Helen , her successor may be challenged by an asteroid strike, alien invasion or the four riders of the apocolypse

    I feel for anyone trying to run any preserved railway and the movement has been lucky to have some amazing individuals who have charted such a good course over many years .

    To address a few points , it is very easy to knock a railway or an individual from the comfort of your armchair . I personally like Helen , she has an honesty about her and a willingness to listen and to tell you as things are . The railway has done a lot of good things under her leadership . As those of you who know me , will appreciate, SVR decisions have had a profound personal impact and the communication of them especially in the wording was poor at best . I've told Helen that face to face .

    I could of course take my toys away . Instead I'm now actively volunteering on the railway . I have too many friends on the line that mean way more to me than a point of principle and who care like so many passionately about the railway and its success.

    it was very interesting to see the response to @1472's challenge on 7027 . If you want to change the course , you have to organise, to be involved . no amount of sitting behind a keyboard will change anything no matter even if your sabre rattling makes you feel better. Advocating legal challenge to past decisions is I'm afraid the lowest thing I've seen and worse in my eyes than some of the SVR's poor pronouncements

    The movement is on a precipice that few of you seem to realise . the last two years and still going will change the landscape profoundly and everyone of us is going to have to come together to support what we have more than ever
     
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  11. Cuckoo Line

    Cuckoo Line Member

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    As an outside observer it seems to me that :-

    Maybe communication of the changing priorities due to things outside the management control I.i. COVID and energy crisis could have been enhanced, some railways seem to be trying to get this point over better than others.

    It is a fact of life that in projects over a long period priority changes may be forced on management due to such circumstances and for a while management needs to focus on short term objectives like survival rather than longer term objectives, this happens in all businesses.

    It all very well trying to remove people but you need someone as capable if not more so to replace them and it is quite possible when they get involved into the detail they will actually take a similar view anyway.

    Who would want to manage a railway in the current environment, whoever does it is going to upset someone.

    1st priority must be getting punters in , giving them an experience to make them want to come back and at least cover costs. If you don't there would t be a railway to volunteer on.

    All I can say is that my experience of how SVR reacted to COVID at the time and the service they ran was excellent and really enjoyed by us. It made us visit more of SVR than we normally do and COVID risks efficiently dealt with. The volunteers also seemed happy to have punters back and were engaged.
     
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  12. Macko

    Macko Member

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    Martin,

    I'm pleased you have found a way to move on and the railway management has been able to reach out to you personally, but not all of us have been treated in that way. I hope I am still some way from doing everything from an armchair but in these more challenging financial times for all of us, I have to be more circumspect about where I go and where I donate.
    The simple facts are that I now personally no longer feel welcome as an enthusiast at the SVR any more. Not by individuals, but by the corporate body.

    They no longer want me to visit on photo charters, despite the frankly nonsense that was written about "holding back other commercial opportunities", I have been looking for the deluge of wedding bookings, private commercial hires etc. but I haven't noticed these in any of the Working timetables ...

    I am no longer welcome as a photographer on the lineside, despite many of my images been used in the past for free publicity. Their explanation of insurance and other worries has proved to be a nonsense again as they have created a small exclusive group of "known photographers" who have been given a pass regardless in a different form. The fact there are some in that group who never actually purchased a lineside pass in the past is actually comical. I do supply my images to the various diesel groups on the line, for which I make an exception as they are a great bunch of guys who always have been courteous and appreciative.

    They no longer want my input as a shareholder, it is clear from that debacle that please let us have the money but don't bother us with your ideas and thoughts and better if you don't come to the line too often, thanks.

    I also have serious concerns about the welfare of volunteers on the line, from my time as a volunteer on the SVR back in the mid-eighties to now, I do not think I have seen such a low feeling amongst the stalwarts who keep the place running about the direction the railway is going. I haven't been to the line for four months and maybe that is changing, but I have seen precious little evidence of that.

    The SVR has always been an important place in my life and I will always want to see it being successful, I know the halcyon days when we had 13+ engines available, five visiting guests at galas etc. are behind us, but I fear the railway is moving to a model more focused on being a commercial entity to the detriment of enthusiasts, heritage preservation and its volunteers. I hope to be wrong, I want to be wrong, but appears to me, it is the direction the railway has been taking.
     
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  13. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Martin, you might have have been able to reach out and have dialogue with the those at the top and you might have a decent personal relationship with the current GM, fair enough if you do, I’ve said before I won’t speak for anyone else, but from various conversations I’ve had with people in various department’s on the SVR I’m not hearing particularly positive things about the current leadership.

    I’m not looking to stir things up, rock the boat whatever you want to call it, but from what I gather division’s are starting to form and that cannot be a good thing.
    You’ve said about the preservation movement being on a precipice at the moment and I don’t disagree with that, I do think though that those in senior management at whatever railway would be unwise to do is surround themselves with those that are telling them what they want to hear, rather than what they should hear.
    We’ve seen this happen down the M5 I genuinely hope those at the top of the SVR aren’t going down the same road.
     
  14. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    Preservation is sadly rife with multiple different views on how things should be done and no railway is isolated from that . I can only share as I find albeit I don't disagree that there are things I would do differently but then again i'm not the one in charge . For the SVR's sake (and we have been here before in history) I hope that the discussions can happen internally and not on an internet forum and both sides listen and do what is best for the railway
     
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  15. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Sadly? Surely only where you're up against a question of problem with only one right and multiple wrong answers? In my experience, such situations nowhere near universal.
     
  16. Sidmouth4me

    Sidmouth4me Member

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    Interesting BBC news article.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c51xgkwe749o

    Whilst focusing on the SVR I’m sure that all heritage railways are experiencing the same oxymoron of increased operating costs (coal in particular) matched by reduced passenger revenue due to the increased cost of living.

    I’m not sure of the answer, as normally increased costs is managed by increased fares but in this instance increased fares will simply lead to reduced revenue. What is certain is that other solutions will now be required to rebalance the cost-revenue curve.
     
  17. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Martin, I can only speak as I find too, but when I hear the same things from different and unconnected people, I’ll hope you’ll understand why I’m concerned.
    My family has a connection with the SVR going back to when it was part of BR, I really don’t want to see it fail because of a certain few and their inability to listen, not all the voices of those I hear can be wrong can they?
     
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  18. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    there are probably lots of potentially difficut choices to be made

    Simple step is to maximise revenue and optimise secondary spend , car parks, cafe's , gift shops . Good marketing becomes key and making sure the railway offers a value for money day out for the passenger
    Reducing costs whether by deferring expenditure , better procurement , managing headcount , overheads etc
    railways may start to reduce running days , more diesel turns , trying to optimise running days albeit at the risk of spreading overheads over a lower operating calendar
    Select events that maximise profit . so we may see less gala's (high cost) and more events that are designed to value add around a standard timetable
     
  19. 46118

    46118 Part of the furniture

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    Following further lineside fires, a steam ban comes into force from tomorrow on the SVR.
    Will be reviewed in early October after the diesel Gala.

    46118
     
  20. Dead Sheep

    Dead Sheep Member

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    I cannot figure out why they don't follow the lead of other railways by placing fire beaters in the guards vans. This would allow staff to beat a fire when discovered.
     

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