SVR General Discussion

The question will be how sustainable this level of business will be. Once the initial 'novelty' value has worn off, will people from further away come to dine? Will there be repeat business from those who have previously partaken? Time will tell (I hope they do suceeed, even though it's to expensive for my wallet).

 

Oh absolutely - so if/when the novelty wears off, stop doing it. If until that time you’re making money… I do increasingly think the future is going to be far more (on all railways), doing things for a bit, then doing something else, rather than trying to come up with a formula that they roll out year after year.

I suppose what I’m saying is making money this year from such a proposition, then the novelty wearing off and dropping it wouldn’t be failure, so much as making some hay while the sun shone?

 

The Premier Dining market doesn't seem to wear off, there is no shortage of people willing to go on the Northern Belle etc. Do it right, build up a good reputation and the market could grow.
Get it wrong and it could very quickly end however!

 

I do recall that when being overhauled around a decade ago, LMS 2886 was then intended to be a reception vehicle as part of a premium dining service, but that market did dip and the service never launched. 2886 found other uses.

 

2 SVR residents featured on this one

 

Why call it elitist? That suggests it’s limited to a certain section of the population which isn’t so. People spend their money on things that are important to them. You may think £450 a head for a luncheon jaunt around Kent on the Belmond is elitist but I’ve spoken to ordinary people back at Victoria who have saved up for a long time to celebrate a very special occasion. The phrase I hate to hear is; ‘I don’t know how you afford to…..’ What that really means is, I wouldn’t spend my money in that way.
Perhaps I’m one of your elite having spent £145 on the Castle photo charter on the SVR, that’s the wrong side of £200 with the secondary spend on food and fuel to get there. I wouldn’t spend £130 a head on a Sunday lunch though.

 

I think there is a difference between "we need your support so we can continue to run £130 per head dinging trains" and "we need your support so we can continue to run a wide variety of services, ranging from £130 dining trains to kids for a quid promotions".

In other words - nothing wrong with a premium service provided it makes a contribution to the bottom line over and above its own cost of operation, and provided there is a variety of other services on offer. I wonder if people complaining about a £130 dining train are equally upset by an all-day footplate experience which is probably upwards of £1000 these days - arguably even more exclusive in clientele, but maybe it doesn't grate so much because the participants will have dirty hands and overalls rather than a smart suit and tie?

All cultural attractions have to find ways to get money in. I don't begrudge the British Museum holding black tie dinners in a gallery full of ancient Roman statues provided the same gallery is also open during the day for the casual visitor. I might object more if the only way to see those statues were to go to the exclusive dinner.

Tom

 

As a sadly less regular than I used to be member of the audience at Covent Garden, I've long thought the argument of elitism to be claptrap. I was well able to attend many performances as a student, never paying more than £7 for a ticket (early-mid 1990s), and have attended plenty of performances for less than I paid for a long running West End play. That some people were in the audience paying £200+ didn't matter in the least - and doesn't when I can get there.

 

If it helps SVR survive , why complain.? Easy on here to criticise when they don't try something different and when they do that is wrong. I think these days Heritage railwayscdo need to be innovative in their offerings but they need to make sure these capture a good cross section if the public. Other railways seem to combine successfully offering families some extra entertainment to attract the younger ones whilst catering for entusiasts and also additionally offering a more up market experience.

 

I find this attitude quite strange.
There seems to be a number on here who are prepared to attend two galas in a weekend with associated travel and hotel costs, which I suspect is way more than £130. Would have cost me around £65 to go to the MHR Gala yesterday , my nearest line apart from the one I can see from the lounge window, are they elitist?
No interest in soccer but a 90 minute Premier League match ticket not far short of that I believe.
There are many restaurants that charge near that for a meal, yet it is often difficult to book a table them.
Railways need all they can get, if it works then fine, if it does not try something else.

 

If you want a meal away from the ‘elitist’ offering I’m sure my father and friends would be more than happy to help out at Bewdley buffet, whilst not a £130 breakfast it does seem to do the job at the price offering you’d prefer.

 

People might have a different way of looking at it, however how that announcement came across to me is, roughly, as follows;

1. This, or something close to it, is what they would charge for their normal offering, if they thought they could get away with it - that people are apparently paying it suggests they could;
2. It's somewhat ignorant of the cost of living crisis (then again, the intended clientele for the service are not the sort who are having to deal with that);
3. The timing is somewhat incongruous, consequently their messaging reads to me as 'we need your money to survive so we can offer a service most people can't afford.'

Couple that with my firmly-held belief that the nation's heritage should be equally accessible to all who wish to partake and I'm naturally going to find it somewhat... objectionable.

If people are prepared to pay for the service that's their prerogative, but personally I think it's pointing one toward potential outcome of our current socio-political climate and that is that a trip to a steam railway becomes almost wholly the preserve of those who can afford an up-market 'experience'. Which, I would argue, is a limited market, one with a limited duration, and which would in the long term give rise to more difficulties than it fixes in the short. People are working longer, incomes are stagnating and final salary pensions are no longer a thing. The proportion of the population who can afford to spend that amount of money on non-essential outgoings regularly is small and is not going to get larger any time soon. Quite the reverse in fact. If the Railway wants to chase that demographic that's up to them, but I can't see it ending well.

I'd also point out that the current and upcoming generations of volunteers are people who've caught the steam train bug from visiting heritage railways. Price most visitors out of the market- or equally as bad, give the impression that it's a pastime for the more better-off parts of society- and there goes your future volunteer base.

Rather than chasing the relatively small number of people who fall into the Venn diagram of 'wanting fine dining' and 'would like a steam train ride', I'd prefer to see the Railway exploring options for shorter journeys (say Kidderminster or Bridgnorth - Highley or Bewdley) as a way of getting people through the door who might want a ride but are not wanting to spend a decent amount of their day doing it.

 

Which will generate more income though?


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My understanding is that this caters for maybe 40 or 50 people. Let's assume I'm mistaken and it's actually 100 covers per service. So £16,500 per dining train.

But, err, what's the caterers' cut of that? They're a business too after all, they won't be doing it gratis or for 'exposure'. So do we say a 50:50 split? So that then becomes £8,250 to the Railway.

Sounds good. But let's say the Railway were to run the half line trip I mentioned. Walk up price for the full line journey is £32, let's say the half line is sold at £15. Use one of the full 7 or 8 carriage sets, seating- what? Around 450 people, on basis of approx 60 people per carriage and allowing slightly fewer in the brakes. So that's £6,750 for the Railway.

So it's less, but- you might be able to run a few of those trains in the day. Whereas the dining train, it's one outing and that's your lot until tomorrow.

 

The railway has introduced family ticket versions of short journey returns this year which are available in advance as well as on the day:
https://svr.co.uk/plan-your-visit/ticket-prices/

 

And what allowance do you make for diversion of custom from full line tickets?


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IMO the overlap between the full line and short journey market is actually fairly small, or certainly was in the past when a decent service was being offered. The currrent timetables makes doing multiple things in a day difficult so might push people into the cheaper option of shorter returns. Then again, the free return visit only applies to full returns/day rovers so that might (hopefully) convince people to buy those.

 

What allowance do I have to make? If somebody wants to travel the whole line they would still buy that ticket.

Turning your question around, how much custom did the Railway lose when it didn't offer the shorter trips @Kje7812 has mentioned?