SVR Loco Newsy News / discussions

I have to say that the Great Western set looks superb but whatever Hagley Hall is burning (not) will soon change that.

 

Any news what the problem with 2999 was/is please

 

The newsletter a few weeks ago stated a mudhole door gasket went

 

thanks, is that a long job to rectify please

 

It's a bit more than that. The mud holes doors and seatings have been refaced and new joints made, washout plug holes retapped and some new plugs fitted and the exhaust injector has had to be virtually rebuilt and flanges remade. Phil was recutting the washout plug holes last Thursday while I was there, and other boiler work was needed. The lubricator shut-off valve was also removed for attention. Quite a bit of work, really.

 

In reality though it's not something that's going to go away any time soon - with no Welsh Coal available any more, most railways will be getting if from places like Poland, Colombia or Kazakhstan, which is hard coal rather than soft coal, has a higher carbon content, produces more volatiles and thus more smoke. We are also likely currently in an adjustment period for many crews as they adapt from years of using Welsh Coal and learn how to get the best out of these harder coals, so smoke will likely be more of a problem now than it will be in future, but it will still likely remain more of a thing than it did in the years when Welsh was still an option

 

We havent had Welsh for quite a while at the SVR. I think the latest stuff is from Kazakhstan.

Its actually the diesels that cause a more long lasting problem for paint jobs when you get a film of oil and other unburnt stuff lying on the surface, requiring a deeper level of cleaning by an already heavily reduced department who are also responsible for the maintenance of the sets. Coal dust is very easy to remove through our wash plant but diesel and oil slick isnt so.

 

Just on a small correction, typically hard coal has a lower carbon content than low volatile soft coals such as Welsh. It is higher in hydrogen, in the form of volatile hydrocarbons, and it is those that can cause dark smoke if they are insufficiently burnt before entering the tubes and being quenched, to emerge as soot.

It's also not a new thing: it's not as if every railway universally used Welsh coal until it was no longer available and is only now getting used to hard coal. Certainly we on the Bluebell have used both for years, typically with two coal piles. Often the preference was to use hard coal for the smaller locos, and Welsh for the larger ones; so the issue now is firing larger locos on hard coal which takes a bit of getting used to, rather than hard coal being something intrinsically new.

If you have only used Welsh or similar before, then the key thing is that you can't run a very thick firebed, because you'll produce huge amounts of smoke when building the fire up. So you need a thinner fire, less primary air than you are used to and much more secondary air - through the doors. And because the fire is thin, you have to be much more aware of holes developing, because things tend to go from very right to very wrong much more quickly if a hole develops. (That's a consequence that the current coal tends to just burn away to nothing fairly quickly, whereas Welsh coals would typically swell up and hang around on the grate long after the volatiles in them had been released). You also typically need to fire closer to when you need heat, rather than the old welsh adage when building up a fire of "stick it in 20 minutes in advance and let it cook". But the nice thing with the current hard coals is that if things do start to go wrong, you can generally also recover quickly.

There's no such thing as perfect coal. But for my money, the current hard coals have a lot going for them provided you control the smoke - not least being fairly free of dust, and not tending to clinker.

Tom

 

I was brought up on Welsh coal on the Talyllyn and believed it to be great stuff because that’s what everyone said. It was only when I changed railways and experienced hard Yorkshire coal that I realised just how much better the hard stuff was. None of the dust and instant heat were just two of the advantages to be had with the hard stuff. The ability to make smoke was also an advantage. If you can make smoke you know you’ve got the grate properly covered with no holes. You can also get amount of air right, as well. If you can’t make smoke you don’t know where you are on the stoichiometric curve and can be admitting too much air and effectively cooling the boiler. Smoke is controllable in most cases and it is simply down to the fireman’s ability.
As Tom has said, the current hard stuff is pretty good, probably as good as anything that could be obtained when UK coal was king.

 

Apologies for the error on carbon content - I always get confused between the two! Although in my defence I referred to the KESR's online MIC resources which states in their 'Combustion' document that hard coal is a higher carbon content, so somebody needs to correct them too! https://kesr-mic.org.uk/resources/Combustion.pdf

I was speaking from the experience of being at the Battlefield where they have used Welsh for years (certainly since 2020 when I joined) and then recently shifted to hard stuff (I think we're using Polish right now) and it took me a couple of trips to remember that I need to check the chimney and adjust the doors far more regularly than I did with Welsh! But having learnt at the GCRN on hard stuff I do find on balance I prefer it to Welsh - it just seems to make sense to me! Although I still sometimes forget to check and adjust the doors!

 

Andy Hardy’s MIC paper on combustion is pretty much spot on. However, from part way down page 4 for some reason he seems to have put ‘carbon’ when he should have put ‘volatiles’. If you make that substitution then it would get 10 out of 10 from me.

 

I much prefer Welsh Steam Coal, the only hard coal I have experienced that came anywhere near to it was a season of Russian hard Coal, it had the same characteristics as Welsh, but that isn't likely to happen again.

 

What? It crumbled to dust as you looked at it and clinkered?

 

Do we know if 2999 is likely to appear on Saturday? We have tickets for the Brick Fest event.

Loco roster has 'subject to repairs'.

 

Yes it had a successful test today


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75069 has failed again and is replaced by 20048 for the rest of the day

 

Thanks for the info.

 

50035 now super sub, with the 20 on the back to rtn it to Bridgnorth.

 

Popped into Kidderminster SVR today.

Spotted the 50 on the early afternoon train Vs 75069, bit of a shame, but made up for by the appearance of 13268 on the observation carriage.

13268 looks absolutely stunning- up close the quality of the paint finish and Gold Leaf work really is superb- credit to those involved with her overhaul.

Kidderminster station has a really lovely atmosphere, the family enjoyed a slice of cake and a cup of tea in the museum.

Downsides- the choice in the refreshment room in the main station was very limited- we were there about 1345, so I'm aware that we were on the tail end of lunchtime but the lack of choice pushed us to just do tea and cake in the museum rather than spend more- also, £6 for 2 scoops of ice cream is a bit of a kicker.

Had a ride on the coalyard railway, kids loved it (we volunteer at a local 7 1/4 line so they loved seeing another).

It's been 7 years since our last visit to the SVR, hopefully time & budget allowing we will try and head back sooner for a ride up and down the valley.

Chris

 

The choice at Highley engine house was much better, Spanish meatballs very tasty!

On the subject of value for money, we were considering going elsewhere this weekend, but having priced up tickets it would have cost pushing £100 for tickets for the 3 of us & it just didn't feel like value for money. Having checked the SVR - the Brick event, plus visiting loco and SVR membership firmly swung the choice & cost substantially less. Clearly many others felt the same way, all trains very well filled with families and notably a number of foreign tourists too.
The Brick Festival, probably about 10 displays, but some impressive modelling and worth it as side attraction - my daughter was happy.
From an enthusiast perspective - 4 steam locos in service, 3 mainline diesels (granted 2 were substituting for the std 4), plus a fabulously noisy run up Eardington from the Saint - can't complain!
P.s: the GWR rake is simply stunning, we travelled in the dining car on the rtn - what an incredible restoration & a privilege to travel in. The regular use of these pre-nationalisation carriages is really something the railway should push as a USP, so different to the ubiquitous Mk1. The SVR is definitely doing something right atm, it felt like a summer Saturday from a decade ago today - packed trains, lots of families and plenty of steam.